The Hand of Suffering (18 Sorc/22BG) - BK

[Raj]

you need 6 bab for bg, can't go 10 sorc only pre epic; icc not really needed, as it can be triggered as a normal combat action much like expertise and stay activated till you need to cast a spell

I'd go 18-22 for a free feats instead of weird anyway, dc 50 is really really poor; or take energy drain to use on a summoned badger from a kicked from party guy, feels very evil and helps raise casterlev

[nicnik]

always forget bg's need 6 bab. 18-22 is a sensible choice imo. can then take dev and still fit in the feat everyone loves. (yes toughness).

[sabregirl]

Indeed 50 dc is pretty bad but you can always have things roll a 1 . . . or two, was quite amazing how many times I've gotten the rona warhammer to work at only DC 50. Tho energy drain is nice in the hells there's fairly few critters with crappy enough saves to drain. There's also the extra lvl 8 spell which hopefully will be very nice once the edits are finished. 22 BG does get you an extra feat but the only BG bonus feat left for you to take is the legendary blackguard fiend and with so few BG levels even when improved it's not going to be so hot.

ICC is somethingI really wanted on this build since very often you're fighting in the middle of a big mess and casting grabbies in the middle of the same mess. DCM can work but in my previous experience with him ICC would have been nice. Over crit gives you a fairly small boost to your crit range, the real gravy would be dev crit and I don't think you have the feats for that.

-S

[Raj]

rona warhammer might strike an amazing number of times, 1 out of 20 hits, and I use the rona sword sometime so I know it can be effective.. but with weird you're going to hope for two 1s in a row, that's 1 out of 400, I'd really avoid to spam those :S extra lvl 8 spell is more handy indeed if the bigby becomes useful, even then I'd take bigby and premo and rely on gs scrolls/precious ( because realistically, as a tank that's just for emergencies )

Anyway the quasi still looks fun after many edits, and my first immo here was a half dragon BK so I'm going to reinc a lvl 50 caster bard ( I heard they sux ) into a 40 bane knight just because upgrading the old build has always been on my to-do list no ICC but smite on a archon ( already using smite on a fresh pure cot and not very impressed about that in hells, but it's just for feeling ''complete'' )

[borges]

Loving this build, which I will use to reincarnate a spare toon built on UR subrace. Two quick questions, though:

1. Does BK premonition count Blackguard levels? It isn't on the list, but gets a special mention at the bottom.

2. Is ICC a BG bonus feat or not? I can't log on to test it now, but the grimoire and wiki say that it is. If so, 22 BG looks more attractive.

[Raj]

yes to both

[sabregirl]

Well I looked at energy drain and by my calculation (and test) is Syr's DC would be 43 . . . I have seen saves in hells drop to the mid 40s with curse song battle tide and everything else going on so it's not ENTIRELY impossible for weird to actually kill something without having to roll 1s. Energy drain however is definitely restricted to strictly 1s only.

I more took the 19th level of sorc for the bonus lvl 8 spell, honestly having made my first BK use sanc from scrolls . . . I don't recommend it at all it's not fun and it can't be extended. I'd say if you want the bonus feat go 18/22 and keep sanc as a spell, if you want to try the lvl 8 hand go 19 sorc.

I do NOT advise dropping toughness on this build . .. HP is terrible already.

-S

[Tonkers]

Sabre been pondering a baneknight myself as as i have never made one i looked at your build here and have tested similar quick question tho would baneknights have to take evocation to boost their grabbies or is it not worthwhile as through testing would find it hard to squeeze it into the build unless i take a book then get epic and legendary in LL feats?

[dapperdave]

funkyswerve said:

Bigby's has no dc, but grapple checks. Casters use their casting ability in that check, which for BK is STR.
Funky

Seems Evo focusses don't affect Bigbys'

Dave

[chirikov]

* Bigby's Forceful Hand
Instead of +14/Str modifier, double caster's Str score, minimum of 38 Str, add +10 per Evo focus, , max of 110 Str; this number plus d20 is checked against the creature's strength + size mod + d20

[Raj]

then if you have 55+ str ( and you do on bk ) evo focii are not useful

[FunkySwerve]

dapperdave said:

funkyswerve said:

Bigby's has no dc, but grapple checks. Casters use their casting ability in that check, which for BK is STR.
Funky

Seems Evo focusses don't affect Bigbys'

Dave

That was before the September edits.
Funky

[Bakchuda]

I see the entry in the Class Edits for the Str check change (which includes modifications for Evocation Focus) for Forceful hand, but nothing about the grapple check. And searching the forums for grapple brought up some conversations but nothing about specifics for this spell. Is the grapple check for Grasping and Crushing hands modified at all from the default NWN implementation? Is it modified to take foci into account?

[borges]

I don't know of any changes to the grapple check, but the changes to the lvl 6 hand alone make Evocation focus much more desirable. Of course, as therajah already pointed out, you don't need the foci for BK, since your strength will already hit the cap.

Cheers, Perin

[sabregirl]

Evo focus would currently help only the lvl 8 hand on a bk, considering your str. You'll have no problems on the grapple check if you follow this build . . .Syr has little to no problem grappling anything in the hells and especially not knocking things down. Only thing thing that stops him, generally, is SR.

But evo focus is really not something you can afford on a bk . . . . . If I were going to take something else I'd consider illusion (for potentially decent weirds/phantasmal killer) or enchantment (for GMW and decent mind fog). But really with the spell pen feats you really can't afford either too well . . .

-S