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Post by starlandra on Jul 12, 2009 7:31:04 GMT
demi'd my girl tonight... and the line from mish's logs was pretty impressive kills 68 (2nd in party only behind acao's kill everything druid) damage dealt 222,052 (1st in party) damage received 57,781 (2nd lowest in party) hit % 54.84 % (53.4 - 56.1) (1st in party) dodge % 80.28 (78.20 - 82.10) (3rd in party behind dex bard, and a battle cleric so duh lol) highlights Asmo damage to 10,649 kills 1 (the AA and the BFM got the other 2 kills) my average hit was for 78.65 damage. With the recent PF nerf (has not been changed back yet but about to be) that is really good, and I can expect better results once they do fix it back party consisted of * Bognus (str fist monk) * Butterscotch (AA/rogue picker) * Karr Firestorm (CoT) * Orin'Esa (Battlecleric) * Phaethon the Exalted (Druid) * Tarkus of Xanadu (DD) * Thomdril Fjord Merrilin (Chanter) * Toast [ER] (BFM) * [ER] Merry Hatchetsinger (dex bard tank) * [ER] Starlicious of the Order of the Stick (ME!!!) so all in all, she is a solid build and even more solid now that she can wear the asmo cloak
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Post by quaduce on Jul 13, 2009 3:57:45 GMT
This seems like a great build star and some good imput from Yomi as usual I never considered QS as a viable weapon for monks.
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Post by starlandra on Jul 13, 2009 6:04:01 GMT
with 21 levels monk pre LL levels you get the same progression as other monk weaps, plus the 2-handed damage goodness
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Post by starlandra on Dec 15, 2009 2:50:23 GMT
she is double demi, and really loving the +14 stats on burs. So much that I dropped the Strongheart all together for an Amulet of the Pharaoh. I will post a screenie in a bit, but she is currently on cania for x3 demi. Did 300k+ damage on min the other night... that is CoT range for damage
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Post by starlandra on Jul 31, 2010 20:17:41 GMT
I do not understand the appeal of Harper Scout + Monk; the extra attacks are at the bottom end of the AB range. With monks suffering AB problems, this seems like a high probability of 2 whiffs per round. Happy to be enlightened. Trazik people keep saying that, and I JUST tested it again, and it showed before using harper boots 97-97-94-91-88-85-82 with just haste, and 97-94-91-97-94-91-88-85-82 with the boots. So you are incorrect, harper bonus does not give you extra attacks at the bottom off the AB range.
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Post by Trazik on Aug 2, 2010 14:27:33 GMT
So you ended up getting 2 bonus attacks at AB 94 and 91. It's not the bottom of the AB spectrum, but it is not the very top either. For monk AB progression, this is probably okay. But for others (the usual -5) it is the very middle of the range.
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Post by starlandra on Aug 2, 2010 15:35:59 GMT
read again, I got extra attacks at the highest, 2nd highest and 3rd highest ab. If I were a ranger it would have been 97-92-87. I still see nothing wrong with that, and that is a far cry from the lowest ab.
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Post by gandoron on Aug 2, 2010 16:54:20 GMT
bonus attacks are always added to the bottom of the "bonus" pool of attacks. Which starts are your highest ab and has a -5 progression (regardless if you have a monk progression for standard attacks). You had prim+bonus+off or 6+1+0 and went to 6+3+0. You should have gained 2 attacks,1 att at -5 and 1 at -10.
However what's odd is that you posted. 97-94-91-88-85-82 97-94-91
Which shows that the bonus attacks were at -3 not -5. Are you sure that's correct, I did some extensive testing (10 toons 2 of which has monk progression) and bonus attacks were always at -5. Are you now getting bonus attacks at -3, if so that makes monks much more powerful. Was something changed in the engine?
-G
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Post by phalthallus on Aug 2, 2010 17:19:41 GMT
Star they only grant 2 extra attacks, not 3. So you didn't get bonus attacks at the highest, 2nd highest, and 3rd highest. Trazik is right, that you got them at 94 and 91. Rearranged to match up: 97-94-91-88-85-82-97 (Haste) 97-94-91-88-85-82-97 (Haste)-94 (HS 1st attack)-91 (HS 2nd attack) So they came at 2nd and 3rd highest AB, which is still reasonable, and better than the bottom, as either used to be the case, or was believed to be the case.
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Post by starlandra on Aug 2, 2010 20:00:03 GMT
hmm I might have forgot it was -5 progression. I did it a few nights ago, but again my point was, far from useless, and as you watch the logs of my monk/harpers very handy. I was out doing divine tanks 90% of the time before the nerf. Now my only challenge is barbarians.
i will double check the -3 vs -5 now.. star needs to start doing sceenies some day.
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Post by gandoron on Aug 2, 2010 20:06:53 GMT
So it looks like you were just estimating the attack progression not testing it. Primary bonus and off hand attacks always have a -5 progression in the system (unless an HG hack went in during the last couple of months).
So you would get an extra attack at 92 and 87, not 94, 91.
-Graham
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Post by starlandra on Aug 2, 2010 23:22:05 GMT
no I really tested it I just forgot if it was -5 or -3 on the extra attacks...
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Post by shardelay on Aug 5, 2010 12:47:59 GMT
There are three individual attack progressions. Prim hand Bonus Offhand
Prim hand is either -5 or -3 depending on mnk progression or not. Offhand is -5 progression always. The number of prim hand attacks is based on BaB. Offhand is either 1 attack or 2 (with I2WF).
Bonus attacks are a completely separate attack progression that starts at your top ab and goes down a -5 progression regardless of monk or not. Haste, Rapid shot, flurry, tensers/DP/SoV, Cot, SD, HS, toyshop boots are all on these bonus attacks and all add attacks at -5, however they add at -5 from your top ab and not form the end of your prim ab.
At least that's my understanding.
When I run your build through my spreadsheet I get a few questions.
1) first you start with 20 str (I assume thats 15+5 for koly, then you add all str and take g-str 5) and you end up with an even str... doing that I get an odd str of 45 naked and pre-demi. 65 with +14's, double demi, and arti.
2) I think your post is pre-koly nerf. Your con is 2 to high. You only get to start with 14.
So... I plugged your build into my spread sheet. I dropped 1 g-str and took GWF instead. I get the following ab at double demi with arti.
Attack Bonus BAB 16 EAB 10 LAB 15 WF? 1 GWF? 1 EWF? 2 LWF? 2 EP & LWF? 1 Epic Prowess 1 WM bonus 1 size mod 0 CW 2 opportunist 0 oppor 2 0 Str mod 27 Wis Mod 0 Dex mod 0 Cha Mod 0 Buff 20 Buffed Total 99
That yields the following AB progression (my sheet might have bugs!)
Main Weapon: quarterstaff Attack Bonus: +99 ,+96 ,+93 ,+90 ,+87 ,+84 Attack Bonus: +99 ,+94 ,+89 Damage: 1-6 + 40 (Critical: 16-20 / x4) Offhand Weapon: Not applicable
If I engage flurry I get:
Main Weapon: quarterstaff Attack Bonus: +97 ,+94 ,+91 ,+88 ,+85 ,+82 Attack Bonus: +97 ,+92 ,+87 ,+82 Damage: 1-6 + 40 (Critical: 16-20 / x4) Offhand Weapon: Not applicable
Note your second set of attacks are your prim hand bonus attakcs and are coming from 1) Haste 2) HS Boots 3) HS Boots 4) Flurry
Slight differences in AB between yours and this due to adding GWF (And maybe me misunderstanding your build post as i dont understand the odd str) as well as possible demi/arti differences.
The build looks like it does really solid decent damage wiht the 1.5 multiplier.
Compare it to my fist monk with 5hs and 8 pally instead of WM.
Main Weapon: fists Attack Bonus: +94 ,+91 ,+88 ,+85 ,+82 ,+79 Attack Bonus: +94 ,+89 ,+84 ,+79 Damage: 1-4 + 20 (Critical: 16-20 / x3) Offhand Weapon: Not applicable
The fist monk has less ab (becasue he was forced to spend points on wisdom to get +16 vs your str) and he doesn't benefit from the 50% bonus on phys damage that the staff gets. If specialty gloves get buffed to do more aa/staffy type damage then thsi would be a good tradeoff, but in the meantime your staff monk will do more damage every time.
The only real weakness, and this really is a weakness, that I see is your ac. I calc it as
Armor Class base 10 natural 20 deflection 17 dodge 20 armor 0 armor+ 15 shield 0 shield + 0 dex mod 15 Asmo? 3 Tumble 12 armor skin 2 CA 2 size mod 0 Girding 2 Div Shield 0 Mnk wis mod 9 Rng Wis Mod 0 Mnk Lvl AC 5 DWAxe AC 0 rdd mod 0 pm mod 0 Total 132
132 at double demi is PAINFUL... you are fine at double, but at 0x you would have been low 120s w/out girding. Then again, there's nothing particularly wrong with a long sighted build, if you have the demis it works. A fist-str monk, however, has better ac due to being forced to dump points in wisdom. Mine has 140ac from the extra ac from wis. I guess it's a bit of a consolation.
The staffy str-mnk is a great build at double demi. I like them. I also think that 5 HS splash is MASSIVELY under-rated (sorry trazik!). Unless you get innate bonus attacks (COT, SD, battle cleric, etc..) you usually only have 1 bonus attack at your top ab from haste. That means that HS boots get you 2 more attacks that are only -10 ab from your max. These attacks are just as good as your 2nd and third attack on your prim hand. They duplicate them. It is NOT at the bottom of the range.
Long live the Harper Scout! (and don't forget DWC haste!)
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Post by jeanhelixü on Aug 5, 2010 13:06:43 GMT
Aboleths staff Orders Wrath is actually extremely good since the weapon buff changes. As it gives 6x 2d12s, so gives better damage than the Dis staff now, additionally it gives weapon specialization quarterstaff for +2 damage, epic skill focus parry, and 2 Shield AC. Which is extremely powerful with an AC in the 130s.
Also the conceal from camouflage is very helpful with the high hide score. Also there is the monk conceal and crit immunity.
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Post by starlandra on Aug 19, 2010 21:06:27 GMT
Just saw these two posts sorry...
I have not found the ac painful at all, and I took this toon from immo to x3 so far. I think pre demi she was 124 or 126. The only painful run was doing abo pre demi, would not suggest that on this build. Otherwise, she does great. She is not a toon that can be mobbed by six baddies at once per say, but with asmo belt it is easy to break aggro if it gets too much, and then jumping back in the fray.
I just did the Pelor fight last night, so with abo staff her damage is 1-6 + 52 which is pure win with nine attacks (someday ten!) a round.
Yes shard, this build is very old before koly nerfs etc. My current ab is 97. I will be redoing her today to put more of a str focus (dropping buffed dex to 38 still close enough to uni) and adding GWF to get my ab back up. (this build was pre GMW feats as well, and was too far deep in abyss to start over until last night lol)
Jean I have compared abo staff to abyss staff and buffed, the abo staff is the best one on the server. I only use dis or abyss staffs for back up weaps etc (as well as rona and moad)
FYI, the build I am looking at to do tonight is as follows:
elf base for immune sleep in abyss 40 Kolyarut: (Hardiness vs. Enchantments, Keen Sense, Low-light Vision, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Search, Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness, Spring Attack, Mobility, Dodge) M 01: Monk(1): Strong Soul, Dodge, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist} M 02: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows} M 03: Monk(3): Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff M 04: Monk(4): STR+1, (STR=23) M 05: Monk(5) M 06: Monk(6): Expertise, {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown} M 07: Monk(7) M 08: Monk(8): STR+1, (STR=24) M 09: Monk(9): Whirlwind Attack, {Improved Evasion} WM 10: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Quarterstaff WM 11: Weapon Master(2) WM 12: Weapon Master(3): STR+1, Iron Will, (STR=25) WM 13: Weapon Master(4) WM 14: Weapon Master(5) WM 15: Weapon Master(6): Alertness WM 16: Weapon Master(7): STR+1, (STR=26) M 17: Monk(10): M 18: Monk(11) Greater Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff M 19: Monk(12) M 20: Monk(13): STR+1, (STR=27) HS 21: Harper Scout(1): Power Attack, Great Dexterity I, (DEX=19) HS 22: Harper Scout(2) HS 23: Harper Scout(3) HS 24: Harper Scout(4): STR+1, Great Cleave, (STR=28) HS 25: Harper Scout(5): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=20) M 26: Monk(14) M 27: Monk(15): Improved Critical: Quarterstaff M 28: Monk(16): STR+1, (STR=29) M 29: Monk(17) M 30: Monk(18): Overwhelming Critical: Quarterstaff M 31: Monk(19) M 32: Monk(20): STR+1, (STR=30) M 33: Monk(21): Epic Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff M 34: Monk(22) M 35: Monk(23) M 36: Monk(24): STR+1, Epic Prowess, (STR=31) M 37: Monk(25): Armor Skin M 38: Monk(26) M 39: Monk(27): Devastating Critical: Quarterstaff M 40: Monk(28): STR+1, (STR=32) Class Race Monk(28), Harper Scout(5), Weapon Master(7), Kolyarut Abilies STR: 22 (32) DEX: 18 (20) CON: 12 WIS: 10 INT: 16 CHA: 6 Statistics Saving Throws at 60 with +14 gear (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 62/62/62 AB 26 base + 25 str + 5 feats + 2 Craft Weapon (i tend to wear a bur craft ring a lot now) + 15 LLAB + 3 LLWF + 1 WM bonus +20 buffs = 97 AC 10 base + 5 monk bonus + 9 wis + 14 dex + 15 robes + 2 craft + 2 armor skin + 2 abo staff + 20 nat (SH) + 20 dodge + 20 deflect (asmo) + 12 tumble = 131 ac 133 with gird. (possibly 134 with correct craft armor gear including afore mentioned ring.) M 01: Save(28), M 02: Save(35), M 03: Save(42), M 04: Save(49), M 05: Intimidate(4), Save(48), M 06: Save(55), M 07: Save(62), M 08: Save(69), M 09: Discipline(8), Lore(6), Persuade(8), Search(4), Save(46), WM 10: Save(51), WM 11: Save(56), WM 12: Save(61), WM 13: Save(66), WM 14: Save(71), WM 15: Save(76), WM 16: Save(81), M 17: Save(88), M 18: Save(95), M 19: Save(102), M 20: Save(109), HS 21: Save(116), HS 22: Save(123), HS 23: Save(130), HS 24: Save(137), HS 25: Save(144), M 26: Save(151), M 27: Save(158), M 28: Save(165), M 29: Save(172), M 30: Save(179), M 31: Save(186), M 32: Save(193), M 33: Save(200), M 34: Save(207), M 35: Save(214), M 36: Save(221), M 37: Save(228), M 38: Save(235), M 39: Save(242), M 40: Concentration(10), Craft Armor(32), Craft Weapon(43), Discipline(35), Hide(43), Listen(43), Tumble(43),
41-60 all stats into str. feats great strength I-IV, Legendary Hardened Soul, LWF Quarterstaff, and I am thinking either LSF Listen (not really needed cause she seem to always be at 125-127 liten anyway with song, but never a bad option, OR Legendary will for stupid will saves of 69.
The pandect will be Blind fight.
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