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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Aug 22, 2007 19:18:18 GMT
Also i count spellcraft as a great way to raise saves for most effects 5 ranks = +1 all saves vs spells and spelllike abilities meaning the 63 Spellcraft you can have = +12 to all saves vs spells and spell like abilities. www.nwnwiki.org/SpellcraftNot all that great considering how easy it is to max out your saves using only gear on this server. Considering the prevalence of bards in later levels, it's even less worthwhile. OTOH, The Epic Mage Armor/Epic Warding/Epic Greater Ruin feats are being reworked, so if you can fit one of those feats in it might be worth taking some spellcraft to meet the requirements for those feats. I really don't think those epic feats will be worth taking as a druid, as they are already feat starved enough.
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Post by bort on Aug 22, 2007 21:44:14 GMT
I really don't think those epic feats will be worth taking as a druid, as they are already feat starved enough. Choices, choices
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Post by kaldair on Aug 22, 2007 22:02:30 GMT
Here's something I've been wondering for quite some time & well here's where it ended up What would be the disadvantage of going 1 Wiz instead of 1 Bard? My main idea behind this is it wouldn't require UMD skill points to be used to use the Wiz scrolls, and those points are becoming more & more valuable ... Kaldair
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Aug 22, 2007 22:12:12 GMT
Here's something I've been wondering for quite some time & well here's where it ended up What would be the disadvantage of going 1 Wiz instead of 1 Bard? My main idea behind this is it wouldn't require UMD skill points to be used to use the Wiz scrolls, and those points are becoming more & more valuable ... Kaldair I personally like 1monk, 1paladin the best. But 1wiz is great if you want UMD, and I still haven't found a great reason to latch onto scribe scroll so I scrapped that idea with druid. lol ^_^
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Post by atomicsomething on Aug 22, 2007 22:13:00 GMT
Here's something I've been wondering for quite some time & well here's where it ended up What would be the disadvantage of going 1 Wiz instead of 1 Bard? My main idea behind this is it wouldn't require UMD skill points to be used to use the Wiz scrolls, and those points are becoming more & more valuable ... Kaldair On 40 Bard allows a dump on UMD and on Discipline and Tumble (poor druid lacking both)
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Post by tyranlthixis on Aug 22, 2007 22:34:13 GMT
The monk level pre epic also gets you some saves, and I know getting the full range of scroll use from 1 level of wizard has been eye'd with some suspicion in the past. I don't think there are any formal nerfs planned but I wouldn't want to see it become the new cheese spread of the minute. That will certainly bring lots of attention to it. So, don't do it ;D
Anyhow, discipline, tumble, and umd are the main reasons for the Bard level at 40.
Most importantly. UMD is absolutely essential for a druid. It gives you immediate access to a reliable easy to use sanctuary spell which is the cornerstone for healing on the front lines as a druid in the hells. It also gives you easy access to black blades, gusts, mords, clarity, stone to flesh, mindblank and a whole other range of other support spells that one will definately want. Its expensive. It costs a lot to get. But, its also very powerful. You also need the full 43 points to buffer your skill against hells penalities (you'll need a bard song + full dump skill points to have reliable use)
Tyran
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Post by tyranlthixis on Sept 2, 2007 21:03:01 GMT
please move this thread to new build forum.
Tyran
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Post by bort on Sept 3, 2007 10:44:44 GMT
Hey Tyranlthixis, I'm looking to build (reincarnate old druid as) this with Kenku, as it seems superior to FA (my most rare alternate option).
I've done a quick rework of your build to fit Kenku (seems to fit very well) and wondered if you'd like me to post it/pm you it incase anyone else is interested....?
Anyway, what are your thoughts on the following starting stats for Kenku? Ideally con would be 16 but that means you can't get 12 INT. Going gnome makes it possible to have your cake and eat it stat-wise (including an extra 2 INT to cover what you lose by not being human), but that loses you a feat... argh;
Human:Kenku:: Strength 8(7) Dexterity 8 Constitution 14 Wisdom 18 (22) Intelligence 15(14) Charisma 8
Thanks, -Bort
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Post by tyranlthixis on Sept 3, 2007 12:47:46 GMT
Sure, none of the threads I've started are "mine" per say. I post these things to get people thinking. Even if they don't follow the exact same feat path a decent build is going to contain a lot of the same elements. More good information out there the more good druids there are going to be on your runs. Besides the people who need the most build advice on the server are the same people who will likely not have an ideal race to work with. Was thinking the same thing about gnome last night. Problem is the illusion focus isn't that useful unless you're building around dragon shape. However, if you already have tons of xp banked the extra 2 con may be worth the loss of a feat. You should also keep in mind the new bloodfrenzy edit has done amazing things for the druids overall hp situation, so base HPs aren't as big of a deal as they used to be. Tyran
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Post by bort on Sept 3, 2007 16:32:27 GMT
Ok, cool; Here's my current outline for the non BUR version of your build It's just a quick cut and paste with edits right now- I'll run it through the test chamber to check for errors asap.Thanks, -Bort p.s. How do you find the lack of combat casting with your druid? Are you good with defensive casting mode or do you not bother? RaceHuman Subrace"Kenku" (secret subrace) - no race requirement (changes Appearance) STR -1, INT -1, WIS +4, free feat: Lightning Reflexes. free feat: Spell Focus - Abjuration Progression19 Druid/1 Monk/19 Druid/1 Bard AlignmentLawful Neutral up to level 39, then change to any nonlawful alignment for the bard level at 40. Starting Stats (subrace mods) Strength 8(7) Dexterity 8 Constitution 14 Wisdom 18 (22) Intelligence 15(14) Charisma 8 Stat Selection while leveling : All Wisdom Pre-epic feats(free feats: Lightning Reflexes; Spell Focus - Abjuration) 1. Spell penetration, Greater Spell penetration 3. Greater Spell Focus Abjuration 6. Silent Spell 9. Empower spell 12. Spell Focus Transmutation 15. Greater Spell Focus Transmutation 18. Spell Focus Evocation Epic Feats21. Greater Spell Focus Evocation 24. Epic Spell Penetration 25 (bonus druid feat). Epic Spell Focus Evocation 27. Epic Spell Focus Abjuration 29 (bonus druid feat). Epic Spell Focus Transmutation 30. Great Wisdom I 33. Great Wisdom II 33 (bonus druid feat). Great Wisdom III 36. Great Wisdom IV 37 (bonus druid feat). Great Wisdom V 39. Great Wisdom VI Epic Spell Focus Conjuration (or Necro if you prefer. Acquired through book) Legendary FeatsLegendary Spell Penetration Legendary Spell Focus Transmutation Legendary Spell Focus Evocation Legendary Spell Focus Conjuration Legendary Reflexes Great Wisdom VII Great Wisdom VIII Skills (remember to bank enough skill points to maximize Discipline, Tumble, and UMD at level 40) Concentration Discipline Tumble UMD Heal Parry Animal Empathy Spellcraft in Legendary Levels (see docs.google.com/View?docid=dfr84scb_0hk23d7)Saves naked at 60Fort. 30 Reflex 31 Will 48 Saves fully geared: Fort. 56 Reflex 57 Will 74
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Post by tyranlthixis on Sept 3, 2007 19:28:35 GMT
Looks great. Kenku looks to be an ideal race for the build.
Tyran
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Post by ocath on Sept 4, 2007 3:51:28 GMT
Tyranlthixis,
How would the use of Anarch affect this build? Would it be viable? Reason I ask is I quite frankly don't have much talent at build creations and would hate to waste the time to see it inevitably fail. Any recommendations/pointers?
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Post by tyranlthixis on Sept 4, 2007 5:08:29 GMT
You'd have to nerf your wisdom by 2 (take 2 less great wisdom feats) or do 2 less legendary feats to make up for the lack of spell focus feats. Essentially it would be like using a +4 race with a really nice con bonus and no negatives. Which would be pretty nice. Of course Half Cel would be better if you could get your hands on it.
Tyran
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Post by bort on Sept 4, 2007 15:35:08 GMT
Woot! Just reincarnated my druid to the Kenku version of Tyr's build above, and I must say; the DMs have done an incredible job. Thank you, guys! I've updated the Kenku build (above) with saves and skills (had enough to max out Spellcraft in LLs, which should help with scroll potency/duration in future). docs.google.com/View?docid=dfr84scb_0hk23d7
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Post by bort on Sept 4, 2007 22:14:04 GMT
Hmm, noticed Funky mentioned the possibility of Lore skill increasing the damage of Evocation spells by around 30%. If this gets confirmed I'll redo and take that instead of Spellcraft. It's not even on the list of prospective class changes though (linked in previous post), so who knows...
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