Scythe / Warhammer Uni STR WM (8FTR/2BG/30WM)

[bort]

Recently reincarnated my old WM build into this build.
Thoughts please

Universal STR WM
Can do either massive crits with Scythe or decent Bludgeoning damage with Warhammer, depending on which is more effective.

pros:
shouldn't have too many problems with STR and DEX stat checks
Dev crit, EWF and LWF(extra attack) on Scythe and Warhammer
34% of crits converted to non crits
131AC with light armor and small or large shield (135 with girding)
127AC with medium armor and shield (131 with girding)
126AC with heavy armor and shield (130 with girding)
saves of 62f 65r 61w
6 attacks per round with Scythe or Warhammer
96 AB
rona & int arti friendly saves (BG not Pal)

cons:
no WM crit immune (doesn't have 40 base strength)
no class based conceal (beg buffs or use rona boots for displacement)

race
half-orc
subrace
juggernaut

All half-orcs receive the Toughness feat for free.
All half-orcs receive the Blooded feat for free, which allows them to acquire Legendary Skill Affinity Tumble.

"Juggernaut" (secret Beyond UltraRare; changes Appearance)
- STR +6, CON +6, CHA -2, free feat: Expertise, increases character size to large, breathes water
- Juggernauts receive (Str modifier * 2)% immunity to critical hits, capped at 90%; that is, that percentage of critical hits on them will be converted to non-criticals; this immunity is based on their form and will go away if they polymorph or transform

Stats: starting - subrace - 60 - items - (modifier)
str 14 - 20 - 32 - 44 - (17)
dex 14 - 14 - 28 - 40 - (15)
con 10 - 16 - 16 - 28 - (09)
wis 10 - 10 - 10 - 22 - (06)
int 14 - 14 - 14 - 26 - (08)
cha 12 - 10 - 10 - 22 - (06)

10 stat points in STR levelling from 1 to 40
10 in DEX levelling from 41 to 60

with 2xdemi i'd probably put 14 stat points into STR, 6 into DEX in order to get 40 base strength for crit immunity

progression
8 fighter, 10 wm, 2 bg, 20 wm

skills
intimidate 4 (needed for WM)
hide 5 (needed for BG)
discipline 63
tumble 60
listen 63
concentration 23 (fighter, bg, whatever's left crossclass at 60)

feats
1 free expertise, toughness and blooded
1 dodge
1 mobility
2 weapon focus warhammer
3 weapon proficiency exotic
4 spring attack
6 whirlwind attack
6 power attack
8 cleave
9 weapon focus scythe, weapon of choice scythe
12 improved crit warhammer
15 improved crit scythe
18 great cleave
21 great STR 1
24 great STR 2
27 great DEX 1
30 great DEX 2
33 ewf light flail
36 overwhelming critical warhammer
39 devastating critical warhammer
wm1 ewf scythe
wm2 ep
wm3 armor skin
wm4 overwhelming critical scythe
wm5 devastating critical scythe
wm6 weapon of choice warhammer

42 lsa tumble
45 lwf scythe
48 lwf warhammer
51 great DEX 3
54 great DEX 4
57 iron will
60 legendary will

AB
=96
30 bab
+17 str mod
+20 buffs
+4 feats
-1 size
+15 lbab
+11 wm

AC
10 base
20 natural (strongheart)
17 deflection (bur)
20 dodge
34 (3 base + 15 dex + 16 enhancement) light armor
12 tumble
2 armor skin
+16 (large or small shield)
= 131 w/ shield, 135 girding

Attacks per Round
5 w/ haste
6 w/ WM LWF bonus

SAVES
62 fort, 65 reflex, 61 will :

8 fighter(fort) 2 bg(fort) 10 wm(reflex)

6 fort, 2 reflex, 2 will (8 fighter)
3 fort, 0 reflex, 0 will (2 bg)
3 fort, 7 reflex, 3 will (10 wm)

base 12 fort, 9 reflex, 5 will
epic 22, 19, 15 (+10)
legendary 27, 24, 20 (+5)
36 fort, 38 reflex, 25 will (+9 fort, +15 reflex, +6 will stat mods)
items 56 fort, 59 reflex, 45 will (+20)
feats 56 fort, 59 reflex, 54 will (+2 will iron will, +7 will legendary will)
bg 62 fort, 65 reflex, 61 will (+6 cha mod)

[chirikov]

you list your ac with a tower shield, but wouldnt that cap your dex bonus? a large shield would work fine in light armor i think

[bort]

Ah, never really got my head round the dex cap on shields.
Cheers
-Bort

[nefarious]

Dec 13, 2008 22:21:23 GMT bort said:

base 12 fort, 9 reflex, 5 will
epic 22, 19, 15 (+10)
legendary 27, 24, 20 (+5)
36 fort, 38 reflex, 25 will (+9 fort, +14 reflex, +5 will stat mods)
items 56 fort, 58 reflex, 45 will (+20)
bg 63 fort, 65 reflex, 61 will (+7 cha mod)

Your will save (last line) is wrong. I have no clue how you figure 45will +7 = 61will. I think you're a cheater

[bort]

Lol.
45 + 7 = 52
+ 9 from iron will and legendary will = 61

forgot to update the calculations below when i added iron & legendary will to the build

[Grogbot]

I like this dual WM toon concept - at some time back in the dark ages (prior to subbys) I looked at something similar with a halfling - no scythe of course, I think I had rapier and kukris. The benefit of the halfling was he got the 1.5x STR bonus on his 2-handed weapon. No AC of course, but that was a longggggggggg time ago.

ANyway,as to the current build, a suggestion on choice of weapons: there are two paths for WM - Crit Hard - go for high multiplier (like warhammer 20/x3 of scythe 20/x4) or Crit Often - go for big crit range (like 18-20/x2 rapier/kukri/scims/light flail or 17-20/x2 assassin dagger). The double weapons are a hybrid cross of course (19-20/x3). With Scythe and Warhammer, they are both "big multiplier" choices. For my money (for what it's worth), I'd choose Scythe and Light Flail. This gives a mix of Crit Hard and Crit Often.

Other combos might include a Double Weapon in the main hand (you don't get the extra attacks of course but they have nice hybrid crit properties, being a mix of Hard & Often)

How do CEP weapons work with WM? I forget, but if they work the other extreme would be the light pick (20/x4) in the off hand.

Just my 0.02p

Grog

[bort]

I don't think i've ever played a Scythe character on HG so i wanted to finally make one...
As for offhand, Light Flail or Light Pick sounds good (for CEP weapons, replace warhammer feats with club feats)
I'll probably stick with Warhammer myself because of the Uro megadamage warhammer. A couple of those should take down Pit Fiends and other cold sensitive creatures quickly*
But i like your idea about crit hard & often.
Cheers Grog
-Bort

*Anyone know if there are Ssithrak and Myco warhammers?
Can't see them on the wiki.

[bort]

Just played a few maps of POM with my Warchanter and judging by the number of times i got KDed with 10 DEX i'm thinking this character would do much better there (and hopefully they're not too resistant to physical damage).

Going to have to reincarnate my old WM to this build soon, can't wait.

[Yomi]

I haven't liked playing a melee character with less than 14 base dex in a very long time. It's just too painful in the Hells, and it sounds like it'll be similar elsewhere.

I went Scythe + Light Flail on mine. Light Flail is a great weapon, while I was not very happy on the one toon I did with Warhammer (but that was before Uro). The nice thing about either Warhammer or LF is they're both bludgeoning damage, while Scythe is slashing+piercing. Just in case you run up against something that really needs that other type (e.g. those golems in Lolth are pretty extreme), it can be handy.

Edited to indicate I'm talking about melee types, not AAs, casters, etc.

[bort]

Being a little short of time (and patience) i've decided to go with LF over Warhammer after all - as i already have the DB LF and don't have the Uro warhammer - and the DB LF is still very nice where you need different damage types.

Cheers Grog/Yomi
-Bort

[bort]

Reincarnated my old WM into this build and updated the main post to fix errors in starting stats and feat order (no massive changes to the build stats though).

[starlandra]

i think if you try wemic instead you can get base 40 str and still have a 20-26ish dex, just tested one and had 30 str 20 dex at 40

[bort]

I didn't realise you could fit all the feats in with Weimic.
Hadn't really considered it tbh as i don't have the sub.

Just found out you can't equip a weapon in your offhand when using a scythe
I'm really disappointed.

Not sure whether to redo without the dualling feats and bump DEX some more or try another large weapon - although none of them are as heavy critting as scythe.
No 1.5 STR mod and no extra attacks over a medium WM.
Bah.

[starlandra]

yes you can bort... you have to relog first. my test wemic and maelephant both did it. but you do lose the 1.5 str mod regardless with a large toon. It just won't show until you relog for that either.

[maljin]

Did you test the light flail in off-hand as well? Medium characters can't wield flails, whips or morningstars in their off-hand because the game is missing graphics for that. I'm not sure if it works with large chars though. Maybe it does with maelephant because you can't see the offhand weapon, maybe it does with wemic too (though wemic appearance shows off-hand weapons).