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Post by norrion on Sept 19, 2007 14:02:58 GMT
Hello, If you're going to reincarnate your AA following the option 1, I think dropping Great dex 9 and 10 and taking epic weapon focus : longbow and armor skin instead could be a decent choice. That would grant you 1 AB and 1 AC at the cost of -1 to your reflex save which is high enough anyways.
Norrion
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Post by nathyrra on Oct 1, 2007 13:06:14 GMT
If u have listen as class skill, maxing it at 63, does it make blind fight a useless feat, now with the new listen changes?
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Post by chainlink on Oct 1, 2007 16:22:00 GMT
Not if you get deafened.
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Post by nathyrra on Oct 1, 2007 16:43:24 GMT
Ah good point, ty.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 1, 2007 17:58:17 GMT
Listen only provides the offensive benefits of blind fighting, not the defensive, as well. Funky
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Post by cathedralmaster on Oct 23, 2007 2:03:55 GMT
Came up with the following gear selection for this build based on what I have - with a Godly Helm of Balance you might be able to do better:
Shroud of the Evernight (mostly for the regen and level ability drain) Coil of Grabduk Crown of Uncanny Stability Evelynn's Arcing Armament Cloak of the Elements Amulet of the Pharoah Whatever -/50 resistance boots best suit you
What do you guys think?
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Post by The Apostasy on Oct 23, 2007 8:07:22 GMT
Stupid question, but why would Listen be a good skill for this build if it already has blindfight feat?
I built this in the test chamber with planewalker and after capping at 40 and dropping points into the skills recommended (hide at 30, max tumble and disc) I had 48 skill points leftover. Where should those go if someone wanted a good party support damage dealer in hell?
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Post by gruntgruntson on Oct 23, 2007 10:49:05 GMT
Blindfight provides some defensive bonuses, and a back-up in case you get deafened. Listen, once maxed, can cut past conceal better than Blindfight (Effectively Listen60)
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Post by Yomi on Oct 23, 2007 12:01:58 GMT
Other options for skill points for an AA would be Listen (to better cut through conceal since you get quite a few attacks a round and high ab) but only if it will end somewhere above 60, Parry to cut down crit damage slightly, or Craft Armor to raise your AC by 1-2 points. As for equipment, a more pedestrian setup would be: That setup gives dr 20/- piercing, 25/- slashing, and 10/- bludgeoning, dr 30/- to elements, as well as enough discipline at high levels to avoid the LL area checks without swapping around gear, and immunities to things like fear and poison. You don't need BURs and Hells gear to do extremely well in Hells and LL areas with this build, though obviously they're quite nice. The setup above, with Lich King and Audacious gloves, was what I used on my AA from Tiamat through Nessus. She had no BUR rings or BUR/Hells gear other than the gloves (which just added +1 AC over Brazen given the other gear). If you do use an Amulet of the Pharoah then the robes and belt could be changed since you'll have 20/- to all physical DR from that (though still handy if you're not a PW so you can put an adaptation amulet on). For Cath's setup, I don't know what Coil of Grabduk does, so comments are stymied some. Since you have Cloak of the Elements giving you DR 35/- to all elements, I think you'd be better off switching to Nightmare Hooves and then Silks of the Iridescent for robes. The boots have level drain immunity. You gain 15% to all elements and 5% to all exotics in trade for 15 DR to one element, which would be a real win. That assumes you're getting exotic DR from some item since you'd lose it from the robes. Another option would be to leave the robes alone and change from UR DR 50/- boots to something like the BUR Snowshoes to beef up your cold immunity, or go with Rona/UR/BUR breach boots. Yet another option would be to switch the boots to the Legendary Boots of Defense which gets you level drain immunity and good exotic coverage, then robes to the Silks for the extra elemental/exotic coverage. That also lets you keep Fear and Poison immunity while swapping amulets (e.g. Beldoin's and Adaptation).
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Post by cathedralmaster on Oct 23, 2007 19:45:50 GMT
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Post by The Apostasy on Nov 6, 2007 14:15:06 GMT
Holy begeezus! I am curious what some of the vets here think of using the Undying subby for this build. Maybe it's just my untrained eye but undying "seems" to be a clearly superior choice to either Erinyes or Planewalker. Is it just me? Anyone experimented? "Undying" (secret Beyond UltraRare) - STR +2, DEX +2, CON +4, INT +2, WIS +2, CHA +2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Luck of Heroes, free feat: Great Fortitude, free feat: Iron Will, free feat: Lightning Reflexes - Undying receive +3 skill points per legendary level
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Post by chirikov on Nov 6, 2007 15:59:04 GMT
erinyes is really the bur sub thats tailor-made for this build, but undying would work very well. im using half-fiend myself, but thats more because its the only bur i have
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Post by cathedralmaster on Nov 6, 2007 22:09:19 GMT
Holy begeezus! I am curious what some of the vets here think of using the Undying subby for this build. Maybe it's just my untrained eye but undying "seems" to be a clearly superior choice to either Erinyes or Planewalker. Is it just me? Anyone experimented? "Erinyes" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement (Changes Appearance) DEX +6, CON +2, WIS +4, CHA -2, free feat: Point Blank Shot, free feat: Rapid Shot, free feat: Weapon Focus Longbow, free feat: Epic Weapon Focus Longbow, able to walk on quicksand As far as relative stats go, compared to my Erinyes Flurry variation, Undying has 4 less dexterity, 2 more con, 2 less wisdom, 2 more int. So your trading 3 ac and 2 ab for 60 hp and effectively two skills. What do you have in mind for the skill points? On mine, the only two useful skills not already maxed are craft weapon, craft armor, and hide (and hide is only 1 off max). Remember the AA skill list is only Craft armor, Craft trap, Craft weapon, Heal, Hide, Listen, Lore, Move silently, Spot and you want the only first level feat you have to go into blooded for tumble. So you gain maybe 1 or 2 ac, 1 or 2 ab depending on gear leaving you with a net loss of 1 ac. Feat wise, Dodge and Lightning Reflexes are a waste. You could drop the two legendary save feats for legendary luck leaving you with fort and will saves of about 63 (compared to 66), which would make up for the lack of undying having an epic feat. If you did go that route though, you'd still be a feat behind erinyes - though you could make that up by using the appropriate pandect. That leaves the loss of the ability to walk on quicksand with undying, but you gain the ability to change your appearance so I guess that at least evens out. ADDED: Without looking, I suspect undying is more for wizard heavy AA builds like Miles' than for Flurrys but don't quote me on that.
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Post by The Apostasy on Nov 6, 2007 22:45:04 GMT
Thanks for the info Cath. Actually, craft weap and armor were the two skills I was interested in but that's only because I do not have a crafting toon. Don't think it would be worth the sundry trade offs. Guess Erinyes is still king of the AA.
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Post by Yomi on Nov 7, 2007 2:52:17 GMT
When I rebuilt my Erinyes AA I started with 12 INT. That allowed me to max Listen, and Craft Armor, put 43 into Discipline and Parry, and have 29 points left over for Craft Weapon (you could certainly choose something different for those points). All those points in Listen and the higher dex means she hits more often. The AC's 4-5 higher than my PW (depending on bard song) just from stats/skills alone, and PW would have to drop one of those skills.
Undying looks like it has some nice stat bonuses vs. PW for an AA -- +2 wis, +2 con, with a str bonus instead of penalty. You get a bonus maxed skill. You do lose Striding, Water Breating, and 5% to all elements. Versus Erinyes you're probably only down 2 AC, lose Striding, but get 60 more hp (there are other ways to distribute stat points also). The save feats are nice but Strong Soul / Legendary Hardened Soul is really the way to go, so it's not as useful as the 4 Erinyes feats.
For a Wiz/AA, it's more favorable but it's not really convincing which one to take. Erinyes will likely still end up with better saves and have an extra feat in addition to the higher AB and AC. But the extra 2 INT and CON at the start look awfully attractive for those builds.
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