|
Post by DragonChyld on Jun 13, 2006 6:20:33 GMT
Mish can you break down the AC for this build, trying to figure the numbers and also figure the AC for my new build at level 60.
Thanks ~ DC
|
|
|
Post by Balduvard on Jun 13, 2006 17:03:54 GMT
You can probably break down the AC yourself, knowing what categories apply (and hopefully what stats the equipment actually has):
Innate +10 Base +Class bonuses (1-8 Monk, 1-8 RDD, 2-16 PM) +Dexterity Modifier +Wisdom Modifier (Monk AC) +Base Tumble Skill/5 (1-12) +Feats (+2 Armor Skin, +1 Small Stature, +1 Dodge) +4 Haste +5/+10 Expertise/Improved Expertise
Equipment Shield: Base 1-3, Bonus 1-16 Cloak/Belt/Gloves/Gauntlet/Helmet: Bonus 1-16 (Deflect) Boots: 1-16 (Dodge) Armor: base 0-8, bonus 1-18 Bracer: bonus 1-13 (Armor) Amulet: Natural 1-16
Now there are spells that can raise AC values above those found in equipment, but you will have to look through the spell changes books to learn more on that. So if you wanted to max out AC, some sort of halfling build mixed in with something that adds a class AC bonus. The extreme example would be a shield wielding Monk 20/PM 16. Horrible attack ability, but it should prove to be the most defensive:
Innate +10 Base +14 Class bonuses (Monk 20, PM 16) +26 Dexterity Modifier (Given 62 Dex at 60) +6 Wisdom Modifier (No shield) +12 Base Tumble (63 at L60) +4 Feats (+2 AS, +1 Small Stature, +1 Dodge) +4 Haste Sub-Total:: 70 (76 w/o Shield)
Equipment Shield: +10 (+16 -6 from losing Monk AC) Helmet: +16 Bonus Boots: +16 Bonus Armor: +0 Base +14 Bonus Amulet: +16 Bonus Total: 138 w/o a shield, 148 w/shield
Of course there are a variety of builds that can garner high AC, it's just a matter of knowing how to fit the pieces together.
|
|
|
Post by DragonChyld on Jun 13, 2006 22:38:38 GMT
cool, my mian reason for asking was the max item bonuses avalible that was used to calculate that AC, you answered my question! now I can calculate a correct AC for my new build.
|
|
|
Post by jillybean on Sept 19, 2006 7:17:40 GMT
I am rerolling my bard and am going to try this build. As always, I have questions 1. Is there any disadvantage to taking Epic Prowess in LL? I would like to take 4 great con feats (instead of 4 great wis) but to take these pre-LL I would have to move Epic Prowess to LL. Is this okay or should I think about moving Armor Skin or Epic Weapon Focus? 2. Do you still feel daggers are the best weapon for this build? 3. Is there a reason for pick pocket other then being able to pick pocket? 4. I'd also like to hear Hiryuu experience with his bard going 2 pal/3 monk - do you think this combo is worth it to skip XP penalty? and do you take those 5 levels pre-epic or after? what weapon do you choose? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by kaldair on Sept 19, 2006 16:34:41 GMT
Well I can answer two of the questions so here goes 1) IMHO it's much better to take the pre-LL con feat & move the Epic Prowess to LL 42. The reasons are that more HP's are received if con feats are taken pre-LL and Epic Prowess only gives +1 AB which can wait 3 levels. 3) PP is such a help for healing monsters that use heal pots. You snag their heal pots, they die quicker, and you get free heal pots which ain't cheap
|
|
|
Post by cathedralmaster on Sept 19, 2006 20:26:09 GMT
Pre-Epic Feat Choices: Toughness and weapon finesse (when creating your character) Two weapon Fighting I too am making one of these and just wanted to note that this is impossible - you don't have the weapon finesse as an option first level. So I reversed the order of that and 2 weapon fighting which since you get lvl 3 from the Tree anyway makes no difference to the build.
|
|
|
Post by mishimayukio on Sept 19, 2006 20:30:23 GMT
1) None at all. Good choice. 2)The damage selection on the random and dustbone daggers are better than any other weapon. The only downside I could see is having to get keens from specialized wizards. Handaxes and kukris will probably work well as well. Though kukris would require an extra feat. 3) PP is mainly useful for drow heal potions, and being a dexer not using a shield you dont need to invest many points into it. 4) If you don't mind losing the 4th attack 2 pally/3monk is probably the way to go. You want to take 2 monk and 2 paladin pre-epic to max your saves. (Check Hiryuu's quoted post in the general effective building guidelines thread.) Another advantage of having 3 monk is that if you have someone cast freedom of movement on you, you'll move much faster, a highly desirable trait in a bard. Also because of monk granting the cleave feat pre-epic, you could take blackguard instead of paladin to be different.
|
|
|
Post by mishimayukio on Sept 19, 2006 20:32:06 GMT
Pre-Epic Feat Choices: Toughness and weapon finesse (when creating your character) Two weapon Fighting I too am making one of these and just wanted to note that this is impossible - you don't have the weapon finesse as an option first level. So I reversed the order of that and 2 weapon fighting which since you get lvl 3 from the Tree anyway makes no difference to the build. Ah, thats leftover from my first build of this when I took paladin as my starting class. Build needs an update anyway.
|
|
|
Post by hiryuu on Sept 19, 2006 21:33:36 GMT
jillybean: 2) Daggers are good. I also like the random handaxes. 4) Edward is still probably my favorite character, and I don't miss the 4th attack one bit. You would take the Paladin levels early, if not right out the gate. Take Monk pre-Epic for better saves, or post-Epic for better AB. I went with short swords, but I often switch out to handaxes, especially in Illithids.
|
|
|
Post by jillybean on Sept 20, 2006 0:29:22 GMT
Thanks for the replys. I tried building this up but I misread Hiryuu's post and went 3 pal/2 monk (3 pal/1 monk pre-epic; last monk@21). I will try building it the other way though to see how it changes the results.
One thing to note though - doing it the above way yielded 5 attacks unarmed - so if you go with kamas you get 5 attacks with the main hand and 2 with the offhand (so 8 per round with haste). Although I think going with this setup your crit range will be smaller.
Also, good to hear about the pick-pocket, I understand I can grab heals off characters but honestly I never remember to do it when fighting so I would much rather push those points into lore.
Thanks for the advice!
|
|
|
Post by sumonelse on Sept 20, 2006 19:03:21 GMT
Greater Focus: Transmutation or higher will allow keen to work on non-slashing weapons. Do you know this for a fact? If I use the ESF book will my weapons be keenable as I dont get the greater spell focus feat? I can confirm this I think. I took the Transmutation SFs all the way up to Epic. As each new lvl of SF is taken the previous one is no longer listed on the character sheet. Therefore if the book is used you will still have exactly the same on your character sheet as if you took all 3 feats. I've also tested it by casting on a warhammer. I actually screwed up and took all the Trans feats thinking it would help my GMW so I had to use the Enchantment book. I now have a +13 bonus so I think that helps confirm it as well.
|
|
|
Post by cathedralmaster on Sept 20, 2006 23:40:38 GMT
Ah, thats leftover from my first build of this when I took paladin as my starting class. Build needs an update anyway. Does that mean you'll be updating it sometime soon? If so, cool.
|
|
|
Post by mishimayukio on Sept 21, 2006 0:01:05 GMT
Yeah, when I get a free 2 hours or so.
|
|
|
Post by Besiege on Nov 9, 2006 16:26:22 GMT
I'm going to make a bard soon, when I get Siren. I like your build Yue, but I won't go the exact way. I don't like XP penalty . However, There is a few damn things I don't know... 1)I have a few ways: *bard 38/paladin 1/monk 1 I won't get many benefits from this, only one more bonus feat *bard 36/paladin 2/monk 2 I'll get immunity to fear and what's most important, deflect arrows *bard 35/paladin 2/monk 3 This is what I like most, because of monk's speed (there could be a druid) and +2 to effects vs. mind BUT. Will I get XP penalty with this? Do I must have classes at the same level or is there 1 level tolerance? Ok, nevermind. I have to read better . Bard 35/paladin 2/monk 3. That's the way. 2) I will stop putting points into perform when I reach 60 points as you say, but I don't understand that thing with WIS...if I don't need to take that, I'll take Epic Fort and Leg SF: Enchantment
|
|
|
Post by fusa on Nov 9, 2006 20:13:10 GMT
deflect arrows only works if you're unarmed, and with a bard you will reach the cap of +20 to weapon enhancement easily, so legendary enchantment wont be much use, unless you're taking it to buff others.
|
|