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Post by zerragon on Nov 8, 2006 8:49:54 GMT
Ah, of course, 117 AC then, and +4 from epic cleric buff = 121
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Post by nerohdam on Feb 19, 2007 17:47:59 GMT
Were there any more updates to this build? Was it ever determined if Aasimir was better than Fallen Angel or vice versa. Any word as to if this is the final rendition of this one would be great. Thanks.
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Post by sabregirl on Mar 23, 2007 10:31:24 GMT
Dunno if Mish still intends to update in this particular thread or no but this is the build I came up with using FA, with considerably assistance from my dear Tyranlthixis who has a lvl 60 version of this. Fallen Angel is DEFINITELY the superior race for this build in fact you could argue a build like this is probably the best use of the fallen angel subrace. In any case this build is a bit tricky as it's easy to end up wasting the cleric bonus feats if stats aren't begun correctly. Starting Stats(after FA) STR-14 DEX-8 CON-14 WIS-12 (17) INT-12 CHA-16 (18) Stat pointsAll STR 1Cl 01: Cleric(1): Spell Focus: Enchantment, Spell Focus: Divination 2P 02: Paladin(1) 3P 03: Paladin(2): Toughness 4P 04: Paladin(3) 5P 05: Paladin(4) 6Cl 06: Cleric(2): Weapon Focus: Weapon of choice 7Cl 07: Cleric(3) 8Cl 08: Cleric(4) 9Cl 09: Cleric(5): Improved Critical: Weapon of Choice 10Cl 10: Cleric(6) 11Cl 11: Cleric(7) 12Cl 12: Cleric(8): Lightning Reflexes 13Cl 13: Cleric(9) 14Cl 14: Cleric(10) 15Cl 15: Cleric(11): Extend Spell 16Cl 16: Cleric(12) 17Cl 17: Cleric(13) 18Cl 18: Cleric(14): Blind Fight 19Cl 19: Cleric(15) 20Cl 20: Cleric(16) 21Cl 21: Cleric(17): Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment 22Cl 22: Cleric(18) 23Cl 23: Cleric(19) 24Cl 24: Cleric(20): Armor Skin 25Cl 25: Cleric(21) 26Cl 26: Cleric(22) 27Cl 27: Cleric(23): Great Strength I, Great Wisdom I 28Cl 28: Cleric(24) 29Cl 29: Cleric(25) 30Cl 30: Cleric(26): Great Strength II, Great Wisdom II 31Cl 31: Cleric(27) 32Cl 32: Cleric(28) 33Cl 33: Cleric(29): Great Strength III, Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment 34Cl 34: Cleric(30) 35Cl 35: Cleric(31) 36Cl 36: Cleric(32): Great Strength IV, Greater Spell Focus: Divination 37Cl 37: Cleric(33) 38Cl 38: Cleric(34) 39Cl 39: Cleric(35): Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Spell Focus: Divination 40M 40: Monk(1) LL featsSilent Spell Grt Str V-8 Legendary Reflexes Epic Prowess SkillsMax heal, concentration discipline and tumble CommentsReal bummer about this build is the xp penalty in LL however there's really nothing to be done to avoid it. As currently written the build gives the cleric AC buff and miracle as epic spells. For the choice of a third via book, I'd recomment Aegis, eternal return or possibly Instruments of Faith. AB is pretty good on this build and Tyranlthixis' version does considerable damage to everything in his path, though a bit on the fragile side sometimes, due to relatively low HP. Saves are very nice on this build (60s+) and definitely one of the selling points. I probly don't have time to work very intensively on my lowbie for this anytime soon but thought it would be fun to post for others that are interested. one of the big benefits of this build in the hells is having an extra healing circle/Heals for the other fighters on the front lines, and of course a few extra cleric epics. -S
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Post by mishimayukio on Mar 24, 2007 4:49:51 GMT
This is almost exactly the build I went with when I remade this with fallen angel, but I lost interest in it to level something else, and I never got around to updating the build here. Thanks Sabre and Ty!
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Post by tyranlthixis on Mar 24, 2007 14:29:35 GMT
If I had to remake, I would get
Girding of the Faithful Miracle Aegis
2 by feats and 1 by book
I did Avatar of Doom on my current build. Basically its severely underpowered for the amount of time it lasts, especially compared to the power of the other epics. He has his moments of course but I'd swap him in a heartbeat if I could.
Tyran
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Post by sabregirl on Apr 3, 2007 21:54:17 GMT
Mish pointed out a couple boo boos in my version of this build so I went back and fixed it, with help from T of course. -S
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Post by Grogbot on Jul 22, 2007 21:38:20 GMT
Hi there A couple of queries here for SG and Ty ... Starting Stats(after FA) STR-14 DEX-8 CON-14 WIS-12 (17) INT-12 CHA-16 (18) Why is CHA so high? I would have thought that an extra 2 points to STR would be better. In fact, why not leave CHA at (8) 10 and spend all the points elsewhere? I understand that CHA is to boost saves from the Pally splash but saves are already high. If you start with CHA=10, and then move to 22 with items, you get +6 CHA bonus and hence +6 save bonus. My calc of Saves is then as follows: FORT 16 base + 10 epic + 5 LL + 20 items +6 pally + (2 + 6) stats = 65 REFLEX 7 base + 10 epic + 5 LL + 20 items + 6 pally + (-1 + 6) stats +(2 + 7) feats = 62 WILL 13 base + 10 epic + 5 LL + 20 items + 6 pally + (4 + 6) stats = 64 (Please let me know if I've cocked this up) Adding another 4 on these by starting with CHA=16 (18) seems excessive - although I've never Helled myself, so just speculating that +66 gains little over +62 reflex. Second, given the new crit rules, dropping STR (or, if the above is correct, dropping CHA) for another +2 on INT means one extra skill point which could be spent on Parry for that all so important crit reduction. Grog-the-speculator [Edit, typo]
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Post by mishimayukio on Jul 23, 2007 0:50:29 GMT
Divine might and divine shield, the big one is divine might as the added damage is unresistable and stacks with everything else. At 7 attacks per round and assuming 3 of those attacks were crits (average with 12-20 threat range), means 100 extra damage per round. Thats not even taking into account that the damage ignores immunity and resistance. Divine shield is useful for the divine immunity and for the extra AC in the hells when song and/or UEF is unavailable.
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Post by Grogbot on Jul 23, 2007 11:18:42 GMT
Sorry Mish, my bad.
Sabregirl's build variation didn't pick Divine Might. I didn't realise that the subby she had chosen had that as a freebie feat, so couldn't figure what the extra splurge on CHA would be used for ...
OK, so now for the 64 million GP question - what would this cheese build look like with a free-to-all subrace? Half-dragon - Blue perhaps?
Grog-the-under-subbed
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Post by Grogbot on Jul 23, 2007 11:22:16 GMT
Another comment for the SG & T variant - you can't take Imp Crit at 9 since your BAB for Pal4/Clr5 will only be 7. Swap with Lightning Reflex at 12 and all is OK
Grog
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Post by atomicsomething on Jul 23, 2007 11:28:40 GMT
Adding another 4 on these by starting with CHA=16 (18) seems excessive - although I've never Helled myself, so just speculating that +66 gains little over +62 reflex. if i'd build this i would drop great Reflex and Legendary in favor of Epic Reflex. I would free one feat for legendary Weapon Focus. Second, given the new crit rules, dropping STR (or, if the above is correct, dropping CHA) for another +2 on INT means one extra skill point which could be spent on Parry for that all so important crit reduction. STR Clerics get one the nicest Crit immunity, so i guess i'll pass on parry with this build. i would rather start with 10 INT. It's enough to max Concentration, Discipline and Tumble till 40. Then During LL, i would buff Conc and Heal (Heal would be 42/43 @60) as Discipline and Tumble cannot be further boosted. On a 12 INT, you could use the remaining LL skill points (45) to boost parry skill. My other doubt is about silent spell as the only spells i can think of who would benefit of it are healing circle and mass heal. it's sure add flexibility, but on 95% of the case you should be tanking in front and two levels of heals seem pretty much enough for the other 5%. Right now, i would skip it as well, and go for 16 CON with 2 spare INT on startup and this feat.
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Post by Grogbot on Jul 23, 2007 11:54:59 GMT
STR Clerics get one the nicest Crit immunity, so i guess i'll pass on parry with this build. Oh good call! Forgot about this since its tucked away in the spells section. Excellent stuff thanks. Grog
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Post by Grogbot on Jul 23, 2007 13:21:11 GMT
On the Divine Might choice for battle cleric, is this worth the expense of CHA and feats?
I used to aim toward this kind of build but have found pallies & blackguards were better here, and their AB rocks. BG in particular, now he can self-buff GMW and Death's-kiss.
Turner clerics are also good at this, although their AB is pretty sad.
Grog
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Post by sabregirl on Jul 25, 2007 15:50:20 GMT
Divine might is definitely worth the feats, though it's best to use fallen angel to save you feats. Especially with divine shield giving additional damage immunity, it's quite nice and essential to the damage output of a build like this. With the change to divine might, your ab can actually be pretty good when buffed, as evidenced by Ty's battle cleric now being tagged through Stygia. I'm working on a modified version of this build currently.
-S
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Post by lala on Jul 25, 2007 18:01:49 GMT
Divine might is definitely worth the feats, though it's best to use fallen angel to save you feats. Especially with divine shield giving additional damage immunity, it's quite nice and essential to the damage output of a build like this. With the change to divine might, your ab can actually be pretty good when buffed, as evidenced by Ty's battle cleric now being tagged through Stygia. I'm working on a modified version of this build currently. -S Heya Sabre, I know Divine Power changed but I seemed to have missed Divine Might. Please can you direct/explain the change as it sounds pretty interesting. Thanks again Lala
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