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Post by Grogbot on Oct 9, 2007 21:10:52 GMT
LL gives +5 LL, +5 for Hardened Soul, +6 for item STAT boosts and +20 from item SAVE boosts making another +31 In fact that's actually another 36 not 31. Bahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha. Thanks Chainlink! Man was I tired when I was doing that. That'll teach me to cut and paste from other posts without re-reading. Grog PS In RL my job is a senior government statistician - you can tell can't you? I should have said 31 +/-5 |
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Post by Grogbot on Oct 9, 2007 21:15:41 GMT
Slippery mind allows you to skimp on Will a bit ^^. Thanks WNX. I thought of this after I posted but was too tired, and seeing as I couldn't add two numbers together, I'm glad I didn't try to muck around with probabilities of successive failure of independent events. Grog PS this sort of discussion has been done to death, and you must be blind if you think i'm starting that fight again, so I'll leave it concealed |
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Oct 9, 2007 21:39:16 GMT
K well just so you know:
With a DC of 65 (60)
Will Save -> % With Slippery Mind
65 -> .25% (.25%)
64 -> .25% (.25%)
63 -> 1% (.25%)
62 -> 2.25% (.25%)
61 -> 4% (.25%)
60 -> 6.25% (.25%)
59 -> 9% (.25%)
58 -> 12.25% (1%)
57 -> 16% (2.25%)
56 -> 20.25% (4%)
55 -> 25% (6.25%)
This scales up to
45 -> 90.25% (40 -> 90.25%)
For Future Reference with Slippery Mind and saves ^^
I only went from 65 to 55 because 62 is max with this build and 7 less than that is 55 (LL feat)
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Post by Grogbot on Oct 9, 2007 22:16:47 GMT
[Arggh I can't get this build outta my head] Is there sufficient Discipline with this build? I see Discipline is taken as a cross-class skill (hey, you've got points to burn), and then ESF:Discipline is taken. Is this enough? If not, going via a human-subby would allow Bullheaded, but then that would require an extra LLFeat for LSA:Discipline. But then again you save on ESF:Discipline. But then again in doing this, your abilities are nerfed a bit and saves become an issue again. And you lose blindfight. But with the extra human skill point you can buy listen. ARRGH. Tinker tinker tinker tinker. Here's another question: I'm mucking around with a PT Air Genasi, and using Bullheaded and LSA:Disc. My choice is- - Is it better to take SC4 and SC5, or - Is it better to take ESF Traps & Search The new Self Conceal rules mean SC3 still gives 50% conceal for pure rogues. With Epic Dodge, shields and Dexer AC, is this front-line liveable? The alternative would be to hav a L60 rogue who can't find or disable all traps in the game which would be intolerable. Damn you Funky & Co.  Too many choices! Too much variety!  Grog-on-a-steep-path-to-insanity |
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Oct 9, 2007 23:31:09 GMT
Appraise, Bluff, Craft armor, Craft trap, Craft weapon, Disable trap, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Lore, Move silently, Open lock, Parry, Persuade, Pick pocket, Search, Set trap, Spot, Tumble, Use magic device
Your discipline will be: 31 (ranks) +50 (items + bardsong) +2 (Str) +10 (epic Skill focus) which is 93 Not awful. considering you never lose skill ranks in hell unlike tanks. you would be giving up 1 LL feat and 1 Lvl 1 feat for a epic feat and 20 ranks not worth it imo
Also you should have with human
1 -> 2
3 -> 1
6 -> 1
9 -> 1
10 -> 1*
12 -> 1
13 -> 1*
15 -> 1
16 -> 1*
18 -> 1
19 -> 1*
//////////epic////////
21 -> 1
22 -> 1*
24 -> 1
25 -> 1*
27 -> 1
28 -> 1*
30 -> 1
31 -> 1*
33 -> 1
34 -> 1*
36 -> 1
37 -> 1*
39 -> 1
40 -> 1*
which is 26 Feats of which 4 are pre epic bonus and 7 are post epic bonus
*7 LL's so thats 33 feats. 6 which would be Imp evasion, def roll(if getting epic dodge), Slippery mind, Skill mastery, Opportunist, Crippling Strike all of which would come out of the 11 bonus feats. that leaves 5 for the likes of the self conceal tree which gives ya 15. 8 pre epic and 7 epic,
pre epic: Luck of heroes, Shield Proficiency, Weapon finesse, Great Fortitiude, weapon focus, and 3 others.
Epic: Epic weapon focus, Epic prowess, epic fortitude, epic will, Epic dodge, Armor skin, Epic skill focus Hide
And 7 legendary: Legendary luck, Legendary Fortitude, Legendary Weapon focus, Legendary skill focus Disable Trap, Legendary Skill focus Open lock, Epic skill focus open lock epic skill focus disable trap.
the LSF are optional.
You get both the ability to deal with A DC of 126 Trap and a Lock DC of 144 And the 75% conceal from Hide/ Self Conceal 5.
Along with an AB of 15+4(Opp)+10(epic)+6(feats)+10(LL)+3(Craft)+21(Dex)+20(Magic)=89
and an AC (with Light) of 10+2(AS)+3(Craft)+3(baseitem)+21(Dex)+84(Items)+12(Tumble=135
^^ Think about it.
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Post by Grogbot on Oct 10, 2007 8:09:54 GMT
26 Feats of which 4 are pre epic bonus and 7 are post epic bonus There are only 5 post epic bonus, one per 4 levels POST 20, which is 24, 28, 32, 36 and 40. Not 7. Hence my comments about Self Conceal 3 vs Self Conceal 5 as per my post. Grog |
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Post by Grogbot on Oct 10, 2007 8:16:41 GMT
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Post by Terankar on Oct 10, 2007 9:59:24 GMT
discipline is and always will be good to have even if it is as per crossclass skill.
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Oct 10, 2007 19:53:53 GMT
26 Feats of which 4 are pre epic bonus and 7 are post epic bonus There are only 5 post epic bonus, one per 4 levels POST 20, which is 24, 28, 32, 36 and 40. Not 7. Hence my comments about Self Conceal 3 vs Self Conceal 5 as per my post. Grog You right i counted wrong. But either way you dont NEED LSF as it coutns to the 50 cap so if you have the equipment for a rogue you can skimp those for the other 2 feats ^^ |
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Oct 10, 2007 20:01:04 GMT
would also like to point out that the people say that 43+40-50 is generally enough for all but the toughest checks and 43+50=93 which is the disc the way i offered had. ^^ so my opinion is offered in that thread too ^^ |
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Post by Grogbot on Oct 10, 2007 21:20:44 GMT
6 which would be Imp evasion, def roll(if getting epic dodge), Slippery mind, Skill mastery, Opportunist, Crippling Strike all of which would come out of the 11 bonus feats. that leaves 5 for the likes of the self conceal tree which gives ya 15. 8 pre epic and 7 epic, pre epic: Luck of heroes, Shield Proficiency, Weapon finesse, Great Fortitiude, weapon focus, and 3 others. Epic: Epic weapon focus, Epic prowess, epic fortitude, epic will, Epic dodge, Armor skin, Epic skill focus Hide Still not seeing it (ie, can't build it). To use the 3 Self Conceal feats as part of the Rogue bonus feats means you need to have DEX 30 by the time you take the first Self Conceal at 32. To get Dex 30 by 32, assuming you start with 20 from your subby, you need to spend 2 of the Epic Feats (between 21 and 30) on Great Dex. Sure you can blow off ESF:Hide but that still leaves you short ... meaning you can only take 2 SC feats pre Immo, and then only 2 in LL by burning the LSF feats. Also WILL save here can be tweaked a bit. Assume we're aiming for mid 50's here as you suggested earlier, and taking advantage of Slippery Mind, Taking LoH/LL Luck and Epic Will gives 53. Strong Soul/Hardened Soul + Epic Will gets 55, and helps FORT more too. |
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Oct 10, 2007 21:34:42 GMT
6 which would be Imp evasion, def roll(if getting epic dodge), Slippery mind, Skill mastery, Opportunist, Crippling Strike all of which would come out of the 11 bonus feats. that leaves 5 for the likes of the self conceal tree which gives ya 15. 8 pre epic and 7 epic, pre epic: Luck of heroes, Shield Proficiency, Weapon finesse, Great Fortitiude, weapon focus, and 3 others. Epic: Epic weapon focus, Epic prowess, epic fortitude, epic will, Epic dodge, Armor skin, Epic skill focus Hide Still not seeing it (ie, can't build it). To use the 3 Self Conceal feats as part of the Rogue bonus feats means you need to have DEX 30 by the time you take the first Self Conceal at 32. To get Dex 30 by 32, assuming you start with 20 from your subby, you need to spend 2 of the Epic Feats (between 21 and 30) on Great Dex. Sure you can blow off ESF:Hide but that still leaves you short ... meaning you can only take 2 SC feats pre Immo, and then only 2 in LL by burning the LSF feats. Also WILL save here can be tweaked a bit. Assume we're aiming for mid 50's here as you suggested earlier, and taking advantage of Slippery Mind, Taking LoH/LL Luck and Epic Will gives 53. Strong Soul/Hardened Soul + Epic Will gets 55, and helps FORT more too. Your right about saves i kind of just hastily looked at a STR rogue build of mine so the save feats didnt work too well strong and hardened soul for the total +6 to both works better i agree. and well i as using Atomie for the Feat reqs and one of the excess feats was shield prof becaus ei only had 1 lvl 1 feat ^^ |
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Post by tgehawk on Oct 16, 2007 18:34:15 GMT
Why do you have discipline on this as its CC and you waste a feat for epic disc. I do not see how that is worth it..What is the ending discipline on this build?
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Post by tgehawk on Oct 16, 2007 18:36:07 GMT
missed above thread on discipline  answered my questions..... |
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Post by Senaattori on Oct 24, 2007 12:28:29 GMT
Just wondering whats the AB of this build? fully buffed at lvl 40 and 60. Im too lazy to calculate it |
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Too many choices! Too much variety! 
answered my questions.....