The skill master (40 Rogue)

[Ironfang]

I think it is 65 +14 GMW = 79 At least that is what mine is.
I 'spose it could hit 85 if you hit the +20 cap? I have yet to see it though.

[fragment]

azghal said:

Just wondering whats the AB of this build? fully buffed at lvl 40 and 60. Im too lazy to calculate it

I'm not very good at calculating things, but ... 76 vs. a bandit with a lvl 35 rare weapon at level 59, soooo

76
-7 attack bonus on kukri
+2 for 3 more dex @ level 60
= 71 unbuffed

Can you add 20 for "fully buffed", gmw and song?

I'm playing the dex version w/o epic prowess, the SC version as posted has 2 less, the dex version 2 more.

[Kazatel]

Is there a reason for the emphasis on search/disable trap vs open lock? I've never played a rogue so I'm guessing it has something to do with the skill bonuses available on equipment, but thought I'd ask before making one of these.

[fragment]

kazatel said:

Is there a reason for the emphasis on search/disable trap vs open lock? I've never played a rogue so I'm guessing it has something to do with the skill bonuses available on equipment, but thought I'd ask before making one of these.

Open lock is dex-based, the other two int-based. Since dex is your primary stat, you don't need to take esf open lock, as you get enough bonusses by the added ability modifier.

[Kazatel]

Wow, thanks for the quick reply

[kaezar]

Well, I did a rogue along much the same lines and have to say it works. I went with less dexterity and more intelligence and went planewalker/elf, because I wanted the automatic search and never liked the silly wings on the atomie. If you like them, go for it.

Although his dexterity is ruinously low because of his low starting point and absolute lack of feats, he still manages to hit AC 132 with the +13 rona robes.

A little aside there, as a side effect of skill mastery it's much easier to max your skills than it is for other classes. That's why hell penalties do not affect you, so you get the full benefit of bard song all the time.

Thanks to that and some rona equipment, my rogue could go to Cania with an AC 133, 137 with girding, 75% conceal and epic dodge (yes, I did manage to fit it in).

The result? He could tank mephistopheles for a long time, as he was hit only on a 20 and mephistopheles had to hit twice on a round and beat his conceal (of 53% vx. meph) both times. Which he did! Twice! Now is that bad luck or what!.

The downside? Well, he has a modified Dex of 56, not a patch on what you see on other charactes on the server. If I could remake him I'd probably make him a human. And of course if I could start with half-fiend results would be much better. But that's another story..

Take care
Kaeza

[schlix]

i have a question on this subject...

for a class w/ discip as a CC skill & taking bullheaded, for instance rogue, would it be best to max the skill at 40, then continue adding pts up to 59 (which i assume still isnt included in the +50 cap at this point), then take LSA: discip at 60 & max discip as class skill?

will the above method i explained yield the highest discip score? i ask b/c i'm unclear on how the LSA feats work, so would appreciate anyones input...

[dapperdave]

schlix said:

for a class w/ discip as a CC skill & taking bullheaded, for instance rogue, would it be best to max the skill at 40, then continue adding pts up to 59 (which i assume still isnt included in the +50 cap at this point), then take LSA: discip at 60 & max discip as class skill?

If you take cross-class skills you pay twice as many points for them....best plan is to take no discipline until you have taken the LSA feat (ideally before you start doing DB and Thids), and max it from then on giving you 63 base.

Dave

[schlix]

ok, but if you take LSA: Discip before putting any points into the skill, will all of those points count towards the +50 cap? if not, how many won't?

[chirikov]

lsa discipline lets you put points as if it were a class skill. all the points will be adding to your base ranks, as if you were putting points during a normal levelup

none of the skill points you spend like this will count towards the +50 cap. the legendary skill focus feat which adds +20 to a skill does fall under the cap however

[schlix]

ah ok, i was getting those 2 feats mixed up...thanks!

[wollstonecraft]

Is discipline a 'must have' for this build? Or can you go without it?
Having not taken Bullheaded at level 1, I am considering taking epic and legendary skill foci to get my base disc to ~49. Will this be enough disc or does it essentially amount to 0?

[fragment]

wollstonecraft said:

Is discipline a 'must have' for this build? Or can you go without it?
Having not taken Bullheaded at level 1, I am considering taking epic and legendary skill foci to get my base disc to ~49. Will this be enough disc or does it essentially amount to 0?

On my Dis run, I ran into the first discipline-oriented problems (slagging of shield and wep), so I would advise to take LSA discipline if at all possible (e.g. using a BURR and taking a human base). At the moment, to make a discipline (90) check I have to have song, which cannot be always guaranteed/expected in the role I'm in (tank). Though I believe, if you can optimize your equipment so that you're always at the +50 cap, you should be ok for most part of the hells, but some hell expert may want to chime in with some actual numbers

My 2 eurocents.

[scarabamassa]

Not sure what a light weapon is, but I'd think a rapier is not a light weapon for a dwarf (medium character size wielding medium weapon). Crippling strike and opportunist require the use of a light weapon. That's why I specified kukri, to be sure . Hand axe (small) should work for a dwarf.

Regards![/quote]

Crippling strike only works for light melee weapons?
i have a build 16 rogue/1 wizard/23 Arcane archer and i use crip strike... is it works for bows?.. i'm reincarnating him and i need to know this cause i'll make some new arrangiment for feats...
other questions: do i need UMD? if not i could use the skills somewhere else
Self Concealement makes diference? my build have self conc 5 but if isnt worth it i could put feats somewhere else too

[fragment]

scarabamassa said:

do i need UMD? if not i could use the skills somewhere else
Self Concealement makes diference? my build have self conc 5 but if isnt worth it i could put feats somewhere else too

1) On an AA, you typically have a wizard level, so you can already use the most important scrolls, no umd required.

2) The core of the build idea as I presented it was that epic dodge + 135/137 AC + a druid's concealment with a rogue's hide skill would be "good enough". I did not get to test that idea very far, but - an AA will miss the high AC part (no shield). I would expect that you will have trouble to even reach low 120s (no wisdom AC). Take concealment.