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Post by starlandra on Jul 12, 2008 17:43:15 GMT
since you have no classes that have umd, where are you getting it period? you can't cross class it when you don't have it to cross in the first place. And why no taunt?
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Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jul 12, 2008 17:53:04 GMT
He's getting umd cross-class old school where it's 2pts per rank, but he can only raise it to 1/2 his max skill level.
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Post by chirikov on Jul 12, 2008 19:42:05 GMT
since you have no classes that have umd, where are you getting it period? you can't cross class it when you don't have it to cross in the first place. And why no taunt? you seem to be neglecting harper scout
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Post by flay on Jul 12, 2008 19:47:10 GMT
Though umd cannot normally be raised cross-class, one of the features of harper scout is being able to put cross-class skill points into at legendary levels.
***
I'd recommend raising the will save. You can dump LSF umd if you want. with 31 +5 from charisma you'll be able to use scrolls without failure. The bard song will cover the hell penalty (at least the first time through hell). If things go horribly wrong and you end up alive and needing to gs without bard song, get some gs potions. With better will you can avoid much of the frustration so many face at malboge with the baatorian's dc 63 will save confusion. You'll be staring down narz easier. etc.
With a much improved will save you can then lower wisdom and raise intelligence by 2, and grab taunt. You also have the option of replacing two great str feats with ESF Taunt and Intimidate. With ESF taunt and some barbarian taunt items Audacious Provocation, you should be able to taunt most cursed enemies in hell on the first try. Just make sure you get a voice set without a taunt sound.
I must admit I'm pretty surprised at this build. I didn't think Undying would make a good barbarian. Now I wish I had looked at it sooner.
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Post by flay on Jul 12, 2008 19:54:00 GMT
Oh, and I'd also strongly recommend ESF Listen. Even if you need to lower AB by 1 to get it, it will be worth it.
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Post by starlandra on Jul 13, 2008 0:51:17 GMT
just a tic tac thing, you need to switch the order of improved crit and power attack, you cant take improved crit that early.
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Post by felicity on Jul 13, 2008 3:37:14 GMT
Thank you very much Flay! Many good advices here. I'd recommend raising the will save. You can dump LSF umd if you want. with 31 +5 from charisma you'll be able to use scrolls without failure. The bard song will cover the hell penalty (at least the first time through hell). If things go horribly wrong and you end up alive and needing to gs without bard song, get some gs potions. With better will you can avoid much of the frustration so many face at malboge with the baatorian's dc 63 will save confusion. You'll be staring down narz easier. etc. Good tips. How do you determine how much UMD do you need for scrolls? I can't find it in journal or the custom edits forum. I would like to know the formula if possible. I'm a bit worried about the will save tho it's workable. I'm planning to take the int arti for confusion imm, still there are various mobs have nasty will dc like you said. In general how much will save is considered safe on a melee tank? I could take epic will that will put me into 65 (64 if went with 8 wisdom), will that sufficient? Glad that you like the build. I was surprised as well at how undying pull this out. Good advices on taking esf taunt and intimidate instead of two str. It is indeed better than 1 ab if you don't mind the clicking and taunting bits (which I don't mind =D).I'm not familiar with tank gears yet, I wonder if you can cover all the important imm/stats to reach +50 cap for both of them? Could LSF allow more freedom in choosing equipments and to offset hell penalties, or is it redundent when you have acquired a decent collections of burs? I thought about this as well, but decided against it. According to the listen vs conceal formula, 127 listen when compare to 117 listen against 90% concealment only net 1% difference. Each ab is 5% difference vs AC, and there certainly are some mobs who have AC high enough to at least block my lower ab attacks, so I'd take ab over listen.
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Post by felicity on Jul 13, 2008 3:47:29 GMT
just a tic tac thing, you need to switch the order of improved crit and power attack, you cant take improved crit that early. Thanks, forgot about the bab requirements of imp crit. It is fixed now. This is not tic tac thing at all... it is quite easy to mess this build up if some of the feats aren't taken in certain levels, so want it to be accurate enough to follow.
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Post by chirikov on Jul 13, 2008 6:15:16 GMT
Good tips. How do you determine how much UMD do you need for scrolls? I can't find it in journal or the custom edits forum. I would like to know the formula if possible. its 25 + spell level, so 34 for 9th level spells. wands operate differently, though i dont remember how its calculated
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Post by felicity on Jul 13, 2008 10:18:10 GMT
Thanks for your clarify, chirikov. That help a tons cos I had to redo skill allocations.
New improvements on the build:
- Fixed the skill points, calculated wrong yet again. Result, I somehow manage to cover all the necessary skills. Thought undying have +3 per level but in fact it's +3 per legendary level... That means I need to cut down on skills, craft weapon is out the ab bonus is in +20 cap not so useful in hell anyway.
- Adopted ESF taunt and intimidate.
- Will save increased to 64
- Reworked starting stats.
- Reworked feat and level progression. Now have all the dual wield feats and dev crit @l35, thanks to the new stats allocations.
Thanks go to Flay for some brilliant suggestions.
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Post by chirikov on Jul 13, 2008 19:19:07 GMT
craft weapon is out the ab bonus is in +20 cap not so useful in hell anyway. as far as i know, this should not be the case
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Post by Yomi on Jul 13, 2008 20:28:38 GMT
Craft Weapon and Craft Armor are outside the +20 cap, so are quite useful in Hells. CA shows up in the character sheet, CW does not, but it does show in your combat log. CW does not work for fist monks, but does for normal weapons and ranged weapons. As for ESF Listen vs. 1 AB, I believe flay has a good point. It may or may not be worth it for your build, but don't fall into the trap of thinking the difference in damage done is proportional to the conceal drop. The difference in damage at the high end is much greater than the amount of conceal drop. See Acaos's Conceal/Listen Chart for reference.
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Post by felicity on Jul 16, 2008 8:04:07 GMT
Craft Weapon and Craft Armor are outside the +20 cap, so are quite useful in Hells. CA shows up in the character sheet, CW does not, but it does show in your combat log. CW does not work for fist monks, but does for normal weapons and ranged weapons. As for ESF Listen vs. 1 AB, I believe flay has a good point. It may or may not be worth it for your build, but don't fall into the trap of thinking the difference in damage done is proportional to the conceal drop. The difference in damage at the high end is much greater than the amount of conceal drop. See Acaos's Conceal/Listen Chart for reference. Thanks for the link, very useful chart there. I did not assume dmg is proportional to concealment drop, it would be silly to think so... Anyway this is not to the issue at hand which is about the choice between 1 ab vs 1% concealment drop. I suppose one can take LSF + ESF for 30 listen (note 20 from LSF is in +50 cap). I would like to know how it compare to 1 ab increase in terms of total dmg output. I guess the difference will be small and it just come down to personal preference.
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Post by felicity on Jul 16, 2008 8:06:46 GMT
Updated - LSF require at least 30 ranks on that skill, so my previous plan of 14 umd + LSF is busted. New update shuffled stats around, boost int to 16(18 after sub)at start and dropped ESF intimidate, the extra skill points solve a lot of problems.
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Post by felicity on Jul 16, 2008 8:10:58 GMT
craft weapon is out the ab bonus is in +20 cap not so useful in hell anyway. as far as i know, this should not be the case inside cap from my test in game though... I took some on my new version anyway in case this is made useful in the future.
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