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Post by Chaos on Mar 15, 2008 22:12:36 GMT
HawkeZ's Severe Uppercut ------------------------------------------ I wanted to build a monk that could do some damage as well as have decent saves and very high conceal. I only built this in the testing chamber but I am very, very happy with the results that occured. I went 2 blackguard for the saves and the ability to do rona. If I had taken paladin I would not be able to do rona due to the loss of saves I would get when smacking on their monsters. Enough jibber-jabber heres the build:
-=================================- -==========The Build===============- -=================================-
---------------------------------- Human: Planewalker ---------------------------------- Ability Base | (Subrace) | {at 60} | [60 with +12] Strength: 10 (8) {8} [20] Dexterity: 16 (18) {46} [58] Constitution: 14 (16) {16} [28] Wisdom: 14 (14) {14} [26] Intelligence: 12 (14) {14} [26] Charisma: 10 (10) {10} [22] ---------------------------------- 16 Monk/4 Blackguard/20 Monk ---------------------------------- Pre-Epic Feats 01: Hardened Soul, Toughness 03: Weapon Finesse 06: Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 09: Blind Fight 12: Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike 15: Iron Will 18: Great Fortitude Epic Feats 21: Great Dexterity I 24: Great Dexterity II 25: Armor Skin 27: Great Dexterity III 29: Great Dexterity IV 30: Great Dexterity V 33: Great Dexterity VI 36: Great Dexterity VII 39: Epic Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike, *Free Feat* Legendary Feats 42: Legendary Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike 45: Legendary Hardened Soul 48: Epic Prowess 51: Epic Skill Focus Parry 54: Great Dexterity VIII 57: Great Dexterity IX 60: Great Dexterity X ---------------------------------- Max Craft Armor Max Craft Weapon Max Discipline Max Parry Max Tumble Max Hide Use Rest For Whatever You Wish ---------------------------------- Fortitude: 31 + 5 (LL Levels) + 6 (+12 Items) + 20 (Items) + 6 (CHA Mod)= +5 ( LL Hardened Soul) = 73 Final Fortitude Reflex: 33 + 5 (LL Levels) + 6 (+12 Items) + 20 (Items) + 6 (CHA Mod) = 70 Final Reflex Will: 24 + 7 (LL Will) + 5 (LL Levels) + 6 (+12 Items) + 20 (Items) + 6 (CHA Mod) +5 (LL Hardened Soul) = 73 Final Will
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Post by shadow on Mar 15, 2008 22:44:01 GMT
With that much monk you have a pretty high empty body and a decent duration, granted it runs out and you need to rerest, but self conceal V is extremely expensive and you're only gettin 8 great dex's. And if you are going to take self conceal you should also max out your hide since that increases the conceal. But dropping SC alltogether you could get 2 more great dex's or add some more strength. And why the bg levs after 20? if you take them pre-epic you get another attack and 1 more ab. And i'm not at home at the moment so I can't check but will you have enough ab? Assuming you want to go to hell with that thing which, I suppose, isn't a given but anything less than 90 is a bit low imho. And not having epic prowess cuts down your LBAB by 2 points. I also don't feel that expertise and improved expertise helps you an awful lot as you should already have pretty good ac
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Post by the1kobra on Mar 15, 2008 22:52:48 GMT
-=================================- -==========The Build================- -=================================- ---------------------------------- Human: Planewalker ---------------------------------- Ability Base | (Subrace) | {at 60} | [60 with +12] Strength: 8 (6) {6} [18] Dexterity: 18 (20) {48} [60] Constitution: 12 (14) {14} [26] Wisdom: 12 (12) {12} [24] Intelligence: 12 (14) {14} [26] Charisma: 10 (10) {10} [22] ---------------------------------- I highly reccomend re-arranging stats to: Strength: 8 (6) Dexterity: 16 (18) Constitution: 14 (16) Wisdom: 14 (14) Intelligence: 12 (14) Charisma: 10 (10) 2 Spare points can be put into int (more skills), cha (more saves), or str (more damage) I would also take hardened soul instead of LoH, your reflex save is already huge and the boost to fort/will should help balance your saves out. Also, you can't take G-Dex on epic monk levels. I would try to arrange it so you get armor skin on your 25th monk level.
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Mar 15, 2008 23:10:27 GMT
Do you have all your bonus monk feats in epic levels? seems like there's a feat missing at level 34
And yes, for a monk you definitely want all the AB you can get
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Post by borges on Mar 15, 2008 23:54:09 GMT
If you're going to make a fist monk, you should make it pure to increase Stunning Fist DC, improve the bonus damage, auto-keen your gloves, and get the full conceal and duration from Empty Body. The two feats you get from the Fighter levels--Expertise and Improved Expertise--are useful only for bosses, as your AB won't be high enough to activate it all the time.
The calculation of saves is also way off somehow. +12 to the save stats gives +6 to saves, not +4. And you don't seem to be accounting for +12 to CHA or the increases to DEX that you'll be making during LLs.
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Post by Chaos on Mar 16, 2008 0:19:35 GMT
I thought that the CHA mod was automatically added to your saves. I updated the +4 to +6...dont know how i got +4. If the cha mod is not automatically added what would 22 cha add to saves?
Chaos
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Post by shadow on Mar 16, 2008 6:07:59 GMT
22 charisma adds +6 so you're getting +6 from charisma and +6 for con/dex/wis for +12 total.
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Post by darthtorin on Mar 16, 2008 7:48:17 GMT
Some comments:
- You don’t take Epic Prowess -> you miss +1 AB from this feat AND another +1 when taking Legendary Weapon Focus - You invest Luck of Heroes at level 1 but don’t take legendary Luck of Heroes. - Would it be possible to take Epic Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike earlier then level 42? You will miss the +2 AB the whole epic levels.
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Post by Chaos on Mar 16, 2008 12:59:50 GMT
- Updated! Removed the fighter levels (didn't need expertise and improved expertise), updated stats for higher con, wis, and str. Also, I fixed the saves to the real max.
Chaos
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Post by MurphysLawAgain on Mar 16, 2008 18:16:28 GMT
I would consider dumping the 5 conceal feats. Empty Body should provide much better conceal while it lasts, and the feats can give you Epic Prowess (2 more AB) , maximum Great Dex (1 more Ac and AB) and 2 extra.
These could be a) A couple of Great Con because HP always helps. b) ESF Parry & LSF Parry, which should help a lot with Crit reduction. c) Lose the Craft Armour skill, and max Listen (which with the ESF & LSF should really help beating conceal).
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Post by Chaos on Mar 16, 2008 23:33:38 GMT
Why ditch self conceal? Doesn't empty body and self conceal stack? If not then I will ditch it, but if it does, then I am keeping it. It will make this build more survivable in a lot of areas.
Chaos
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Mar 17, 2008 0:17:02 GMT
Self conceal and empty body does not stack. Self conceal is nice when you're out of uses of empty body.. but it's pricey, and only 50% conceal. If you bump hide and max that, you can have up to 65% conceal if a pure ranger/druid casts mass cammo, or 60% conceal if a splash (less than 10 non-CC levels) ranger/druid casts mass cammo.. at a cost of 0 feats, (or 2 feats if you get epic/LL skill focus). Last I checked most parties have a ranger or druid in the hells, and often multiple rangers now.
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Post by bort on Mar 17, 2008 0:42:26 GMT
Yep, and a few people in most parties will be able to hand out roughly 50% conceal from Displacement (higher % with illusion focuses) so although the fact Self Concealment is non-dispellable is nifty, it's not all that great.
The problem is that Self Conceal is often taken (mostly) with epic monk bonus feats, and there aren't really any other useful feats available except Armor Skin and maybe Epic Toughness for a few more hitpoints.
I think you have the bonus feats listed in the wrong order, assuming you're going with the 16 monk/4 bg/20 monk progression. Epic bonus feats should be at 25, 30 and 35 monk levels (not overall character levels), so your bonus feats should be at 29, 34 and 39 character levels, because of the 4 blackguard levels pre-epic.
I'd suggest: Epic Feats 21: Great Dexterity I 24: Great Dexterity II 27: Great Dexterity III 29 (bonus): Armor Skin 30: Great Dexterity IV 33: Great Dexterity V 34 (bonus): Epic Toughness I 36: Great Dexterity VI 39: Great Dexterity VII 39 (bonus): Epic Toughness II Legendary Feats 42: Epic Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike 45: Legendary Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike 48: Legendary Will 51: Great Dexterity VIII 54: Great Dexterity IX 57: Great Dexterity X 60: ESF/LSF hide
(wasn't sure what else to suggest for 60 as you haven't taken listen - if you had i'd suggest ESF or LSF listen).
Hope that helps. -Bort
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Post by simpetar on Mar 17, 2008 7:06:21 GMT
and there aren't really any other useful feats available except Armor Skin and maybe Epic Toughness for a few more hitpoints. Are Improved SR or Improved Stunning Fist so useless that it is not worth taking them on leveling (instead of Pandect)?
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Post by chainlink on Mar 17, 2008 8:53:46 GMT
Improved SR is pretty useless, Improved Stunning Fist can be OK if you build your stunner the correct way.
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