Quasi: Doublemagic

[wnxhalfwingseen]

Ah yes Yet another quasi idea brought to you by Halfwing
This is a caster geared for damage spells and must be used smartly and strategically to be effective

Requirements: Wizard level 10 Sorcerer level 10 by level 21 Spellcraft of 23 and Lore of 23

Due to becoming a vessel filled with magic upon reaching Doublemagic Your stats Recieve the following benefits/penalties:

Str set to 6 Dex set to 6 Con set to 6 Wis set to 3 Int and Cha +2

All offensive spells Use Int+1.25xCha Modifier and Sorcerer+Wizard levels for DC Penetration and Caster Level.

When a studied spell is cast by a Doublemagic The magic stored within him infuses the spell if it knows the spell (when you cast a wizard spellbook spell and you have that spell in your sorcerer book you cast the spell as if Wizard level + 1.5xSorcerer Level caster level and int mod + cha mod for dc) Example: Meteor storm is cast by wizard spellbook and sorcerer has meteor storm by 18/18 sorc/wiz the caster level is 36+18=54 and if 30 int 30 charisma the dc is 10+9+(Focus)+10(int) +13(1.25xcha mod)= 42 spell focus MAX CL = 75

When a Natural spell is cast by a Doublemagic. If that spell has been studied the spell is duplicated by the mind of the Doublemagic (when a sorcerer spellbook spell is cast if the wizard has the spell in its spellbook both spells are cast as if being cast by double the Level of the caster type(+1/2other class) and the studied spell gains double the int modifier and the natural spell does not.

Example:
mage is above 20/18 sorcerer wizard with 30 int and 30 charisma
Sorcerer spell:
Meteor storm is cast with a caster level of 49 and dc of 10+9+focus+10
Wizard spell:
Meteor storm is cast with a caster level of 46 and dc of 10+9+focus+20

[the1kobra]

Please tell me your numbers are what I think they are...
so wait, if you have a 60th level Doublemage that has 17/23 wiz/sorc CC sorc, you can cast wizard spells (boost int and get all wiz gear) that you have as sorcerer spells at 103th level? I know you soak up two slots on this, but a class with 2 casting classes gets a lot of spell slots anyway, even more since sorcs are not affected by the cap.
I'm not sure but I have a feeling this quasi would be a little overpowered..., well, maybe more than a little.

[wnxhalfwingseen]

My bad i forgot to mention a few of the limitations thanks for pointing this out kobra brownies for you!

Would also like ot point out you will NOT be able to get epic spells and still use his benefits on the lvl 9 spells ( if you go sorc CC if you go Wiz CC you dont get to use this for lvl 8 and 9 )

[the1kobra]

Even without epics, i'm still unconviced this class will be well balanced.
I've already figured out half a build in my head, go 17/22/1 wiz/sorc/pal, you can get 101st level spells and have high enough saves to save against everything. Go cha based and gear up on enough dach/tia items to balance out your slots. I still think 101st level spells are too powerful, you never have to worry about SR, so you can pretty much grab anything that isn't immune, you will be throwing MSs that do 101D10 damage which should come out to 555 damage per cast, get obscenely high DCs as you get BOTH your cha and INT to DC, top it off with LSF evoc and I dont think anything will ever save again. This will also be a problem as you can take a PMs role as you will be better at wailing and wierding with the proper build, can grab anything like a wizard, have more powerful evocation than a bloodfire mage, and have 101st level buffs as well. I think it is worth it to give up epic wall and the other goodies for 101st level spells, you can probably even get more than 10 G stats as both add to your DC, especially since spell penny is little more than a waste with an SP of 101, which is enough to bull through anything.
Youll have to think of some really serious disadvantage to playing this or its going to be superior to every sorc or wiz in the game. I know with my quasiclass I gave them a limited spell selection range, but this quasi should have something too. -4 Con will hurt but its hardly critical and can be easily boosted back up with the right setup.
T1K

[wnxhalfwingseen]

the1kobra said:

Even without epics, i'm still unconviced this class will be well balanced.
I've already figured out half a build in my head, go 17/22/1 wiz/sorc/pal, you can get 101st level spells and have high enough saves to save against everything. Go cha based and gear up on enough dach/tia items to balance out your slots. I still think 101st level spells are too powerful, you never have to worry about SR, so you can pretty much grab anything that isn't immune, you will be throwing MSs that do 101D10 damage which should come out to 555 damage per cast, get obscenely high DCs as you get BOTH your cha and INT to DC, top it off with LSF evoc and I dont think anything will ever save again. This will also be a problem as you can take a PMs role as you will be better at wailing and wierding with the proper build, can grab anything like a wizard, have more powerful evocation than a bloodfire mage, and have 101st level buffs as well. I think it is worth it to give up epic wall and the other goodies for 101st level spells, you can probably even get more than 10 G stats as both add to your DC, especially since spell penny is little more than a waste with an SP of 101, which is enough to bull through anything.
Youll have to think of some really serious disadvantage to playing this or its going to be superior to every sorc or wiz in the game. I know with my quasiclass I gave them a limited spell selection range, but this quasi should have something too. -4 Con will hurt but its hardly critical and can be easily boosted back up with the right setup.
T1K

You didnt notice the small little words at the end of the wizard infusion text where it says the max CL is 75
Also editing the stat decrease

[the1kobra]

I still think that the DC=INT+CHA is going to be a problem. Bear in mind that with gear you can already get +12 instead of +6. Also, the stat setting on all 4 non casting stats is going to make the only feasable choice going with 17/18 or 18/17. This quasi's DCs are going to be through the roof, just calculating... (assuming 10 G-stats)
18/16(just to be nice)
(Add 20 from levels.)
38/16
Add 10 G stats, as most casters take 10 G stats.
48/16
Now add the gear.
60/38.
Now that makes:
DC=10+INTmod(25)+Chamod(9)+Focus+spell level.
That will make DC 9 higher than a cheese sorc or wiz. You will have to divert some points to con, but your DC without sub or artefact bonuses is going to be 44+focus bonus, (8)m + spell level, or 52+spell level. (61 for 9ths, and thats a DC 68 wierd)
Artefact will add another DC, and a decent sub will add even more. Pixie adds to both INT and CHA if I recall and you can sink your con from the setup at the start anyway.
Nice ideas, but there definitely needs some balancing work done.

[wnxhalfwingseen]

Well the point is to do well with this I also think the wizard book should be unable to learn via scrolls but i dunno how possible that is.
I think the DC's are fine with the weird as it uses 2 spell slots to cast 1 spell and also if you manage to only get 38 cha you only get 10 lvl 9 spells in sorc school pre slot items so you need to up that with sorc items

also i feel your skipping over the fact only Offensive spells use both classes for anything ^^ and its easy for me to say no phant killer/wail/finger/weird but i feel that wouldnt be the spirit of the quasi the spirit is to run out of spells faster but to deal more damage

with all sorc gear you get 14 wiz slots and 30 or so sorc slots with your setup. if you split down the middle you get like 22-24 in each. which isnt awful but compare that to my pure sorc with the 40-50 or so. you get to cast half the amount of spells to deal roughly double the damage (but the same amount in the long run) it just makes you deal the same amount of damage total but twice as fast. now for deaths spells i could easily just say for the wiz function its Int+1/2 Cha and that would allow for your setup to have 7 less DC but still a bonus. now the double casting is still the better one for death spell IMO if you double cast with 40/40 in stats and 40/20 sorc wiz you get to cast 2 wails at once with DC's of like 55-60 which is more effective but its less effective for damage as it causes more kickback and such but the double casting gains benefits in DC relient spells rather than damage spells. Cursing petrifying death spells dispeling ect

[MightyKhan]

I suggest sorc spellslots are eaten away when wiz spell is cast. And vice-versa.

[the1kobra]

A sorc/wiz will get a lot more spell slots than a pure sorc or a pure wiz. Items like this will definitely shift that balance.
Codex of the Axeria imperia.
www.hgwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Codex_of_Axeria_Imperia
Impasse of Impulse. (Is a BUR though..)
www.hgwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Impasse_of_Impulse
Another BUR shield..
www.hgwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Ur-Ward
A BUR robe that every caster wants:
www.hgwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Wrap_of_Fistandantilus

I know there are non BUR items that give slots to both, I think some Dis shields do as well, but as you can see, there are plenty of items.

There are a lot of items that grant both sorc and wiz slots, so you will end up with plenty on both ends. Yes, you do basically burn two spells per cast, but you get rediculous casting power and DC. A caster with 30 in both you said (using sorc primary) would get a DC of 49, and most casters usually have thier casting stat at least 60 without sub or artefact mods. Even assuming its lower, your DCs are going to be at least 8 or so higher than any other caster of the same sub/gear, it might even be 20 higher if you use 2x cha mod for sorc spells.
The double mage gets a con of 6, I know, but you also get 10 to your casting stats and its easy just to shift those and then you get a 16 con, and that is decent for any caster.\
It also seems that casting a wiz spell to a sorc primary is a lot more powerful than casting sorc->wiz, or am I missing something?
I think you should really do away with the stat modifications.

[wnxhalfwingseen]

the1kobra said:

The double mage gets a con of 6, I know, but you also get 10 to your casting stats and its easy just to shift those and then you get a 16 con, and that is decent for any caster.\
It also seems that casting a wiz spell to a sorc primary is a lot more powerful than casting sorc->wiz, or am I missing something?
I think you should really do away with the stat modifications.

Good point reverted to my original +2 each which isnt that overpowering considering if you have 8 str 8 con 8 dex you lose 6 stats and gain 4 so still at a loss.
Also Casting a wiz spell with sorc primary is powerful for damage spells

but for Any DC based spell:
Death spells Curse Paralyze Charm Petrify Enervation mords blind/deaf energy drain UTD feeblemind

Getting 2X the spell cast is more beneficial
As the odds of succeeding are more and some of them like energy drain get their effect applied twice.