|
Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jun 6, 2009 23:33:41 GMT
I also think it's got too many bonuses atm for the fact that it's not really losing a whole lot...I might have to think of something...
|
|
|
Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jun 7, 2009 9:07:33 GMT
Here is a Mock Pellurian Blade Dancer build with Fighter CC. At the end I included some comparisons to a Double Weapon Champion of Torm based on damage buffs, and surviveablity aspects.
Pros: 95-97AB depending on Gear Listen 1.5x Damage Modifier and 6atk/round 51 Bard Levels for spell calc Extended Displacement buff Fighter Conceal Imp Disarm
Cons: Light Armor 119 AC at 60 Can't really afford universalness (Over/Dev Crit) Skill Tight Only 10 Bard and 14 Charisma for no level 5&6 spells
Half Elf Kolyarut
Str 13 (18) Dex 13 (18) Con 12 (16) Wis 8 (6) Int 14 (16) Cha 16 (14)
Put all points into Dexterity F Level 1: Blooded, WF Greatsword F Level 2: Weapon Finesse B Level 3: Power Attack F Level 4: F Level 5: Cleave B Level 6: Spell Focus Illusion F Level 7 F Level 8: Great Cleave B Level 9: Greater Spell Focus Illusion F Level 10: F Level 11: Improved Critical Greatsword B Level 12: Iron Will F Level 13: F Level 14: Weapon Spec Greatsword F Level 15: Metamagic (Extend Spell) F Level 16: Improved Parry B Level 17: B Level 18: Toughness B Level 19: B Level 20: B Level 21: Great Dex I B Level 22: 15 Perform, 25 Tumble Dump F Level 23: F Level 24: Epic Prowess, EWF Greatsword F Level 25: F Level 26: Epic Weapon Spec F Level 27: Great Dex II F Level 28: Disarm F Level 29: F Level 30: Great Dex III, Improved Disarm F Level 31: F Level 32: Armor Skin *convert first epic prowess to dex* F Level 33: Great Dex IV F Level 34: Epic Prowess (Dex) F Level 35: F Level 36: Great Dex V, Epic Prowess (Dex) F Level 37: F Level 38: Epic Prowess (Dex) F Level 39: Great Dex VI F Level 40: Epic Prowess (Don't convert)
Use the Spell Pen Tome perhaps
42: LSA Tumble 45: LSA Listen 48: LWF Greatsword 51: Leg. Will 54: ESF Concentration 57: Epic Fortitude 60: Epic Spell Focus Illusion
Str 18 (30) Dex 48 (60) Con 16 (28) Int 16 (30) Wis 6 (18) Cha 14 (26)
AB = 97, and Craft Weapon is barely doable.. most likely 96 46 Base 40 20 Buffs 15 LBAB 5 Ability Points in LL 6 Gear 3 LWF 2 Craft Weapon
AC = 119 10 Base 21 Dex Mod 1 Base Light Armor 17 Armor Bonus 20 Dodge 17 Natural 17 Deflection 12 Tumble 2 Armor Skin 2 Craft Armor
Skills: 15 Perform Max Parry 20 Conc Max Discp Max Tumble Max Listen Split between CA/CW after that.
Seems overpowering at first, but you must consider that you're using no shield and light armor at 119AC with a BUR Race. That's painful at 6atk/round when you're taking hits and Kickback. To me it looks like a real glass cannon, much like a CoT with a double weapon.
CoT vs PBD:
CoT is strength based (higher dmg mod) PBD is dexed based (lower dmg mod)
CoT gets 9atk/round PBD gets 7Atk/round at 1.5x damage
CoT has Divine Might PBD has Whetstone
CoT has Divine Wrath AND Crit Immune PBD has Fighter Conceal and Displacement
(my) CoT at 2xDemi 112AC in heavy armor PBD at Immo 119AC light armor
Just a few comparisons between this and what is currently the biggest damage tank type on the server....I may be wrong but it seems like an even comparison back and forth, and I think the CoT still wins out in power in the end.
|
|
|
Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jun 7, 2009 9:15:07 GMT
Edits: Changed Weapon Requirement to any Slashing Weapon that you wield two handed as an option. Small size = Katana, Bastard Sword, Longsword etc. Large Size = Mercurial Greatsword etc.
Changed Requirements to 10 Bard, 12 Fighter before level 24
|
|
|
Post by starlandra on Jun 7, 2009 15:25:05 GMT
like the concept though I am loath to make new dexers on this server. I used to only do dexers but they get so squished in hell I have gotten that down to about 1 dex tank now.
|
|
|
Post by starlandra on Jun 7, 2009 15:26:20 GMT
maybe the dance should give a 50% chance of avoiding KD? Then it would make dexers viable I think (without the cries of UUU every twenty seconds or so)
|
|
|
Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jun 7, 2009 16:03:36 GMT
maybe the dance should give a 50% chance of avoiding KD? Then it would make dexers viable I think (without the cries of UUU every twenty seconds or so) It would have to be based on perform probably...or something...I really don't see that as a viable option, but I do know how you feel. Right now I'm still brainstorming, and I'm glad the playerbase so far seems to like the idea, but not sure how the dev team would feel about this quasi
|
|
|
Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Jun 8, 2009 4:39:31 GMT
well i can tell you right now they won't take a quasi with fighter levels. thats just something ive been told on previous quasi suggestions
|
|
|
Post by Acaos on Jun 8, 2009 4:42:22 GMT
Fighter levels in a quasi are perfectly acceptable; what we would avoid mostly is combinations of fighter with other melee classes. Every quasi is judged on its own merits.
Also, a double weapon CoT is not a great benchmark for damage; they are pretty overpowered melee-wise. You should probably compare to a sword-and-board meleer.
Acaos
|
|
|
Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jun 8, 2009 6:18:51 GMT
Fighter levels in a quasi are perfectly acceptable; what we would avoid mostly is combinations of fighter with other melee classes. Every quasi is judged on its own merits. Also, a double weapon CoT is not a great benchmark for damage; they are pretty overpowered melee-wise. You should probably compare to a sword-and-board meleer. Acaos So, the Fighter/Bard mix is okay then? Here are a few of the best Sword and Board builds on the server. I picked BUR Race builds because that's what my mock build was using. Mish's Pharlan Grip (x2 demi stats and str arti though) 137AC 93AB 4Atk/Round Shield Using Malad BFM Armor Get's Tensers among other Buffs Sabregirls Pain River Blackguard 94AB 129AC Crit Immunity Heavy Armor Buffs like Death's Kiss Mish's UniversalPaladin Build x2demi stats and arti96AB 141AC Crit Immune Light Armor Divine Might buff Holy Sword Lythe 's Uni-str Ranger98AB (x2 demi, str arti) 136AC Dual Wielding Light armor Critical Hit Immune Okay..gonna stop spouting off builds. The biggest difference I see is that you get 6atk round like a dual wielder, but unlike rangers who can get high AC from Wisdom, the PBD loses that AC bonus for the 1.5x Damage modifier and other benefits. As for Sword/Shield users, more attacks, higher damage most likely. (Sword Shield builds are str based, PBD is dex) but loses the stability of heavier armor and the shield for phys immunes and AC.
|
|
|
Post by Trazik on Jun 8, 2009 10:07:32 GMT
I like the idea in principle of a two-hander that does not use a double weapon. At the moment, there are not (m)any viable options.
Since this quasi would be dex-based, and since there are several good dex subbies other than Kolyarut (Erinyes, Half Fiend & Brownie being the big three, but also Shard, Half-Kyton and Zenythri being possibilities) there appear to be many subrace possibilities.
If I read correctly, the primary means of defense are dex-AC and fighter concealment and/or extended Displacement + LSF Illu (note that in light armour, you would almost be forced to use Echoes of Creation or the Uro bard light armour for this quasi). So AC and conceal would be quite decent, but of course damage would be horrible without the dex-mod bonus and 1.5x for 2-hander.
What multiclass combos could/would someone combine with F/Bd to round out the build? Well, DwD splash comes to mind. Possibly Pal or BG for saves, or Rogue or Monk for evasion (or maybe half-Guardinal subby for Evasion).
Would any of these be over-powered? Well, Shard with Paladin or BG splash might be powerful, especially if you manage to squeeze in Divine Might and/or Divine Shield. For this reason, perhaps Pal and BG should be prohibited. Kolyarut Dwarf with DwD splash on a dex-based build would be very useful or powerful depending upon how you see things.
These are just idle thoughts to help flesh out the quasi a bit. I like the idea a lot and hope a nice balance can be achieved.
|
|
|
Post by Trazik on Jun 8, 2009 15:39:51 GMT
Also, for small subraces, maybe falchion --> scimitar and greatsword --> longsword or bastard sword.
|
|
|
Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jun 8, 2009 16:07:13 GMT
Trazik: Thanks for the input. I already edited the requirements a couple days ago to state that you must have focus in a Slashing Weapon that you wield 2handed. You wouldn't have to use Echoes or Uro bard light armor with displacement. Those are used for bards in light armor/shield that want their Ethereal Visage conceal. You could use any armor you want and still get the 52-55% conceal bonus from normal displacement. Nice ideas with the other subrace options, the Kolyarut was just one version of many that could be used easily with the idea. Also, I didn't transfer the Dex-Mod based damage over from the link...using your dex mod for damage instead of strength seems too overpowered, but then that's not my decision in the end.
|
|
|
Post by MightyKhan on Jun 8, 2009 16:19:08 GMT
they do get epic weapon specialization, which equals to +12 strength (but isnt included in the 1,5 modifier) perhaps something to up the damage output would be to integrate a part of the whetstone damage?
|
|
|
Post by StrykerOfChaos on Jun 8, 2009 16:21:45 GMT
they do get epic weapon specialization, which equals to +12 strength (but isnt included in the 1,5 modifier) perhaps something to up the damage output would be to integrate a part of the whetstone damage? Not sure, but wouldn't the whetstone damage still get 1.5x damage? Also, it would be cool to see it integrated, since you must be using a slashing weapon anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Trazik on Jun 8, 2009 16:37:02 GMT
A few additional thoughts & ideas ... - Perhaps alignment restricted to chaotic or non-lawful (as bards) - Maybe instead of dex-mod to damage bonus, what about a bonus to disarming or KDing? - fitting in 7 WM levels means big sacrifices (perhaps rightly so). You have to give up fighter Epic Prowess conversion. - Can a character with only 10 bard levels take ESF Illusion, even after character lvl 41? - Is the Whetstone upgradable with a Crucible of Moliation?
|
|