I whas wondering how curse and song effect table look like if u don't use !bardsong 2 set it.
I have done several hell runs on the same layer and i have sometimes trouble 2 use spels like Energy drain , normal when there cursed it isn't a problem.Did a dis once when the saves on the curse only where -2.
I think not all bard players how or even know 2 set there songs.
well, i think for curse it really depends on the party and the areas if theres an assassin, and you are going to meet a lot of cornugons, theyll be very happy if you can drop their parry below 120. if the party is very tank heavy, or if theres no girding, im thinking AC and AB respectively are very good choices. and generally any class that is heavily dependant on monsters failing their saves wants saves maxed. and since about all parties have that, definitely max saves.
depending on the layer, bardsong dodge ac gets more important if you do deeper and if you have some single or double demies in party. saves, not so much, you can get those from gear. damage, while nice, not a key survival thing skills, id say these are quite important. getting an extra point of AB/AC, or maxing listen score and discipline etc.. id definitely max, or near max, skills on bardsong AB, not that important, as there are multiple sources for this. especially if there iof in party, youll need only to raise by 4.
this is from someone whos never played a bard before and is just based on my logic. please correct me if im wrong
Post by Werehound Silverfang on Nov 23, 2009 18:58:21 GMT
Drain saves all the way... but then I only play casters. That extra -7-9 to saves is WONDERFUL. Not only does it help casters kill things quicker, but it saves our spells so we can go longer in-between rests.
Post by drunkenboaster on Nov 23, 2009 20:28:02 GMT
This is the settings I use for my bard. Pure with artist and legendary artist feats. Bard song AB - 51/+6 - This is enough that with +14 gmw will hit cap. AC - 63/+8 - Probably not required to max, nice to have since uef and aov are not easy to keep sometimes Damage - 57/+8 - Every hit landed gets this bonus unresistable damage, and it is multiplied by crits. This is definitly an important one to max, unless you have no tanks in the party. Saves - 19/+2+2+3 - Tbis is throw away for an end game bard. Players should already have +20 fom gear. Skills - 63/+21 - Skills are so very important, every point will make a difference.
Curse Song AB - 41/-5 - I would have liked this one higher, but had to make sacrifices for others. AC - 63/-8 - Lowered ac helps everyone from tanks to orb/evards using arcane casters. Damage - 21/-4 - Might be nice if it was higher, but other stuff is more important. Saves - 63/-7-7-8 - Want a fast run where the casters destroy everything? no brainer to max. Skills - 63/-21 - As saves are for the casters, skills are for tanks.
I do have to agree with the OP on it seemingly like some bards have the saves reduction for curse set to a very low reduction. On some runs it seems like implodes, drown, assn dev crit, etc work as often as I have been used to in the past. However, on other runs I can throw 10x drowns at one mob and it still likes to stick around.
Of course I cannot prove anything since I don't save the logs or run a logger, but ...
Your effectiveness as a caster depends on many things.
Bard song is the single most powerful saves AoE debuff -5 for default song to -7 for customized.
Battletide/prayer/wail of doom all affect critter saves by -3 (or rarely -4).
Energy drain/enervate and ability draining (construct poision breath) all negatively impact saves sometimes by a great deal. Got a PM in the party? Chase his ED's with drowns/implodes/FoDs.
Overlay greater restores from a cleric on this which effectively drops saves a further 1 to 4 points in Hells and VASTLY improves the effectiveness of any toon that checks DC (casters, assassins, rangers).
However in most non-guild parties I find the single biggest barrier to landing spells is spell resistance.
If critters don't have their SR dropped then the ONLY debuff they typically get is bard song because prayer/battle tide/wail of doom fail to break SR (which is 80 even on trash mobs). If you are lucky enough not to poof on the SP check you'll have a much harder time beating the DC check.
So if you are ploding that hamatula with a 51 fort save with your 66 wisdom LSF Evo cleric in Malbolge and everyone is debuffing you will almost certainly kill it.
And it will die 65% of the time. If the bards song is default then it will die 55% of the time. That's nearly 20% less often so you WILL notice it.
If the hamatula hasn't had it's SR dropped then you will need to break SR. That's going to happen if you roll 12 or better (40% of the time).
Now it's fortitude save is at 44 because prayer didn't land and it will die only 50% of the time if the bard has customized song and 40% of the time without it.
Your compounded efforts to break SR and kill it are now:
20% with groovy bard song 16% with lame default bard song
That's a 25% decrease for the lame song - very noticeable.
By the way a 74 wis cleric with +1 dc augment item is going to have DC60 and hit that hamatula under the same conditions 30% and 26% of the time so they'll get the job done with half as many plodes as the 66 wis cleric (yay for double demi's).
saves are important on bard song especially if you have any single demi's in party
I don't think so, the maximum save penalty for a 1xDemi at Nessus is -7. Universal save bonuses are stacked on items to such a silly extent that i usually end up with +40 to each save.
My song is pretty similar to DB's, except on curse song I lower the skill drop slightly. -18 makes cornies CSable (they have 117 parry). Higher is better for disarmers, but they don't seem that common. This is where having two saved curse songs is handy, if you have disarmers in the party, switch to the curse song with maxed skill drop.
My song allocation, copied and pasted from my build page.