New R-HC- rules

[hackenslay]

OK, we have been playing for a week now with new, more restrictive hardcore rules on some of our toons, and designating this by putting "R-HC-" in the name. Since players have been asking about the changed rules, I thought I'd post them again in a more conspicuous place(last time was in run listings).

1) No wallet.

2) No store bought items except non-magical armor and weapons. No heals, cures, scrolls, pots of any kind. No heal kits or port stones either. You can use them if you find them, but can't buy them. This means that except for IDing stuff only the weapon shop and armor shop are open to you. those bought with money earned from adventuring or sale of items found while adventuring.

3) If you aren't on a map or within 1 map of a loot when it drops, you can't have it. The 1 map restriction is in case you are transitioning when someone runs out and spawns.

4) No Priest of Lathander blessing.

5) No power-leveling. 1 trip around a map, and go to another area.

6) You can party with others who don't use these rules, but must delete yourself if they rez you. And of course you can't join loot splits with these unrestricted toons. You can put your loot in the split tho.



That's all I can think of now. If those who have been playing like this think of something I miss, post it here. If anyone wants to discuss another rule or any of these, feel free to post or ask us in-game.

[Shakua]

i would question why you would make new rules thats limiting a small playerbase in the first place. not a jibe at you or anything, just curious

[hackenslay]

Well, 3 reasons really

1) Tired of hearing "You're not HC"

2) Thought it might be more fun/exciting

3) Might add more players to our HC base

So, on #1, who knows or cares?
On #2, a definite yes
on #3, another definite yes, we have gained at least a half dozen new HC players in the last week.

[chainlink]

And they've been dropping like flies for the most part, I think there are some names that are up to double figure incarnations by now. I do respect what you're trying but I think its fragmenting and confusing the HC playerbase somewhat.
No matter how carefully you play it you can still get overwhelmed and for HC that's game over. I was on the first Lloth, Immo, Ssith, Thid, Tia & Dis runs and they were all good fun no matter what party/gear you have there's still the chance of getting wiped.
It's not like we've not lost multiple level 34-40s on Lolth and Immo over our runs so whoever says we've done no risk runs is talking rubbish.
Minimising risk possibly but then just because you're HC that's no reason to play stupid and walk out in front of a bus rather than using the pedestrian crossing five yards down the road.

[hackenslay]

I do agree that although it has been fun and exciting, we are dropping like proverbial flies. I made 7 versions of my Str monk Friday, not even counting the 3 rogues and 2 Dex monks...and a Wizard.

At this point, I have 2 toons alive(after 30 or so creations since Thursday), a semi-Uni Monk and a Rogue. And I thought I was one of the more cautious players!(I am definitely not, but I could pretend...not anymore).

[wollstonecraft]

Wow.
I can't wait to see the rules for UR-HC and BUR-HC.
No looting? No resting? No leveling-up?
Could be pretty intense!


-WSCraft

[olir]

Number 2 is the one that bugs me. I don't mind wandering for loot. I don't mind the added challenge. I don't mind that 3 of my last 4 characters have fugued. I just can't imagine the point in scrounging for potions. Life is tough enough.

I'll give it a spin over the next few days, though, and see if it changes my mind.

[holes573]

I'm of the same opinion. I'm not sure why you have essentially eliminated all store purchases.

So, is money now worthless, as well as all duplicate (and bad) gear you find? I'm not sure how this restriction makes you any more pure in HC.

After all, adventurers in real life (you know, when you and I take a weekend to go fight orcs) have stores. That was true in Medieval times, as well. Beyond the "realism" issue, this approach makes the (likely faulty) assumption that the game developers have placed loot of the appropriate type and proportions that a character will need. A good example of this is the low drop rate of heal potions, which are typically used at a much higher level than they are found. I'm assuming this was done due to the easy availability of of heal potions in the store. Why is limiting your gear to the developers' item drop rates appropriate for HC?

If the point was just to make it harder (without any association to "reality") then make a rule that everyone has to go naked.

-Holes

[Shakua]

guess if you win a beaker in thids, you cant use that either heh

[EW Storm]

#2, Please clarify, these items are not to be used if found, or just not to purchased from the store/guild... ?
#3, This is to prevent doing nothing and getting loot anyways? otherwise I don't follow the logic..

I like it... I think these rules would work great for a close-nit group, you can have your healing cleric type... paladin lay on hands even ? Opportunity to make use of some of the lesser known class functions I should think.

[hackenslay]

As far as #2) goes anything you win by beating up mobs is yours, you earned it(yes, even a beaker from thids or an amulet of ultimate invincibility).

#3) is to make sure you are a contributing party member, even if you only cast barkskin on a tank or slung a rock at a mob every now and then...we understand that not all toons can contribute equally at low levels, but at least be there.

Again, these are not hard and fast rules, they are only for those wanting the extra challenge. We (almost?) all still have normal HC toons that follow the standard rules.

On that same note, neither I nor anyone I know has or will ever refuse to play with anyone who wants to join a HC party...unless they aren't HC of course. Hate taking all that risk for no xp.

[louisvilleslugger]

The limits on healing potions is too restrictive. It places way too much emphasis on particular classes (ie. cleric/druid). I'm very confused by this. Did you want to limit builds to only ones that can self heal? Did you want to limit the roll of the cleric to that as a healer for the party?

[hackenslay]

Most of the feedback I've gotten in-game agrees that having to scrounge heals IS too restrictive. So don't...go ahead and buy heals if you want.

These are totally arbitrary rules that I just made up as the hardest of possible rulesets. Everything found on the way, nothing even remotely magical bought, no rez unless farmed by someone in the party which means you have to survive to 7th to even have a chance if you die.

Yes, they are unforgiving, completely asinine and anal-retentive rules that no-one in their right mind would adhere to...but some of us are enjoying them. That doesn't mean that you will, or that it won't be extremely hard to survive...but we have several near-immos already(not me of course).

My 6Druid/4Shifter is doing well(because of the summons/AE at low level) and only has the cantrip version of cure wounds...and no heal skill. My Str Monk I finally gave up as a lost cause even tho I may try him again under normal HC rules.

But I say make up your own rules and play by them...buy heals if you want, buy weapons if you want, buy rez if you want, use the wallet if you want..it's just a game and if you don't enjoy it, why are you wasting your time? Don't listen to me, I am not "Mister Hardcore", I just play this way cause I thought it was fun and challenging. If scrounging heals kills the fun, well, we'll still play with you even if you go and buy mystic weapons at 1st level.

Playing HC is hard enough, especially with the new exploit fixes(and more to come).

[hackenslay]

After much discussion in-game, I believe that the consensus is that using stores is alright after all.

Teleben said it much better than I could:

The thing with the store is there are already level restrictions on items, and things like rez scrolls and heal pots become pretty expensive. So as long as you are only using the money you find, or proceeds from sales of thing you find, then I think it should be OK.

So I will edit the first post to reflect this. Thanx for the input everyone.

PS-Amar and several others said this from the beginning but I didn't listen to them...my apologies.

[hackenslay]

We've resurrected this style of play for a hoot and discussed in-game the new quest system.

Also the focus of this playstyle has changed from "ultimate hardcore" to as close an approximation of PnP as possible. That means that you play as if you were sitting with your buds around a table...or at least I do(but my campaigns were always hack'n'slash affairs anyway...can you tell by my playername?...lol)

The quests make for good runs as lowbies(and are even tough if taken at low level...remember no free Rowan Guardian levels.) We almost had a party wipe 3 times yesterday...once doing the Bifurcated Lever quest and twice doing Half-Orc Bandit Chief.

But it's been great fun, I gotta tell you(except for Tele loosing a toon)...just barely got enough xp in time to use raise dead scroll, then running like heck from Bandit Chief to town and back to raise party members fallen during a backspawn in Bandit Camp.

Now for the purpose of this post:
For those who play this way, might play this way, or just feel like chiming in with a "You're not hardcore"(just kidding, peeps...I'm in a good mood)...what do you think about randomization in this case?

I think it should be fine, except that lowbie loot isn't randomized...giving you a second chance to use worthless loot, which wouldn't be possible in a PnP setting...I see valid points on both sides of the issue myself so I'm ok either way, but I was curious what the rest of you thought.