Post by shardelay on Apr 22, 2010 19:08:35 GMT
My old faithful TinCan needs a facelift. I've got a DD/WM getting a reinc at the same time so I figure I'll turn the tin can into a DD CC warchanter (The new updates piqued my interest!). However, I'm a bit unsure about exactly what role a warchanter should fit so I'm looking for feedback. This version is very very close to to louisvill's The Hound that Howls (so close I considered posting at the end of hsi thread but i decided i'd give it a fresh thread so it wouldnt clutter his). I've swapped up the subraces, updated for new feats, and swapped in pally with the abyss in consideration.
I'm looking for suggestions on this one:
Shard's Shard
Requirement: CC Dwarven defender as this is a reinc. As a DD CC, it seems criminal not to be str based so I'm only looking at str versions. I like Girding better than Dust to Dust (I think), so that pretty much means 18bard lvls, which requires me to take 19 dd levels, whcih leaves 3 free to splash... therefore 2 pal seemed about right.
Used Shard subby in order to get the free bard feats: Extra music, lasting inspiration, lingering song. The stat spread was also favorable.
Here goes.
Final build in +14 gear:
AB 94, 96 with double demi
AC 133 pre demi with girding (which I can cast) - no need for a SH - that's in light armor and large shield. You get 134 with tower and shield. Post demi it's 137 with tower/heavy and 138 with light/large. These numbers will vary a bit depending on what shield you use, and will not be this high wiht a caster shield (which should allow 77% conceal from stilled displacement as a warchanter spell). I believe caster shields are 3??? lower.
hp: My spreadsheet stinks at calc'ing hp. 1200ish or something.
saves with 2x demi
Fort: 69
Reflex: 69
Will: 69
(no I didnt make those saves intentionally)
abilities with double demi:
Str: 58
Dex: 34
Con: 34 (I had a con arti on this from before, definately not necessary or even optimal)
Int: 34
Wisdom: 26
Cha: 34
Using heavy mace.
Pro's: .
- Good defense - 24% extra phy immu means heavy armor immunities in light armor. decent ac and 77% self conceal.
- Max listen for conceal penetration
- Almost a uni tank
- Great saves
- Pally quality fear immune
- Disease immune
- Crit immune from 40 base str + parry for permanant crit reduction
- IOF
- Girding
- Death of Magic (more useful with the rak changes of late)
- Songs - but they arent great
- UMD for gs/mord/etc...
Con's:
- A serious poor-mans bard. Not many songs or curses and they are weak.
- No artist
- No unressistable damage
- No anti-limbo song which is a warchanters most attractive feature in my view.
Here goes:
Race: Dwarf
Subrace: Shard
Creation screen stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 10
Wis: 8
Int: 16
Cha: 12 (can drop this to 10 and then to 8 at each demi iteration and still have 16 cha - add that back into dex/con)
Subrace mod'd starting stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Wis: 8
Int: 16
Cha: 16
Lvl 1-10 Bard
Lvl 11-20 Dwarven Defender
Lvl 21-22 Paladin
Lvl 23-32 Dwarven Defender
Lvl 33-40 Bard
Abilities:
STR every level
Feats:
1) Blooded
3) Toughness
6) Dodge
9) Still Spell
12) Weapon Focus
15) Power Attack
18) Cleave
21) Great Cleave
24) Improved Crit
26) Epic Weapon Focus
27) Over crit
30) Dev Crit/Epic Prowess
33) Curse Song
36) Power Crit
39) Armor Skin
skills:
Max Perform at 43 on bard lvls
Max Tumble at 43 on bard lvls
Max Disc at 43
Max Listen at 43 (not pal lvls)
Max Parry at 43 (not DD lvls)
31 pts in UMD
Legendary Abilities:
All str
Legendary Feats:
LSA: Tumble
Greater Weapon Focus
LWF
G Str 1
G Str 2
G Str 3
G Str 4
Legendary Skills:
Tumble to 60
Max Persuade to 63 (After Warchanter perform in LL mod is in)
Max Disc to 63
Max listen to 63
Leaves 52 points
CA to 20
Dump rest in conc 32
Tome: Illusion for 2% EV conceal
Pandect:
Arti: Pretty wide open.
I'm very unsure about this build. I'm actually marginally unsure about the idea of a DD cc warchanter in general. I can see how a dexer bard CC might make a nice melee bard, but the STR/DD version seems to give up alot versus other DD builds.
Will the song be viable at all? Clearly I wont be the solo bard on mala - Nessus w/out UUU, but will it be viable from tia-malb? Not sure if there are enough songs either.
After demi, will the extra cha count vs minimum cha necessary to cast epic chants? i.e. is 14cha + single demi enough?
Question: WF mace, light hammer, or heavy flail are required for quasi, but could you simply take WF light hammer, and then take another WF and another series of foci and be able to use a completely different weapon? That seems like cheese/exploit.
Another question. Weapon Focus; Mace doesnt exist... weapon focus light mace and weapon focus heavy mace DO exist... is it one of these or both?
I'm looking for suggestions on this one:
Shard's Shard
Requirement: CC Dwarven defender as this is a reinc. As a DD CC, it seems criminal not to be str based so I'm only looking at str versions. I like Girding better than Dust to Dust (I think), so that pretty much means 18bard lvls, which requires me to take 19 dd levels, whcih leaves 3 free to splash... therefore 2 pal seemed about right.
Used Shard subby in order to get the free bard feats: Extra music, lasting inspiration, lingering song. The stat spread was also favorable.
Here goes.
Final build in +14 gear:
AB 94, 96 with double demi
AC 133 pre demi with girding (which I can cast) - no need for a SH - that's in light armor and large shield. You get 134 with tower and shield. Post demi it's 137 with tower/heavy and 138 with light/large. These numbers will vary a bit depending on what shield you use, and will not be this high wiht a caster shield (which should allow 77% conceal from stilled displacement as a warchanter spell). I believe caster shields are 3??? lower.
hp: My spreadsheet stinks at calc'ing hp. 1200ish or something.
saves with 2x demi
Fort: 69
Reflex: 69
Will: 69
(no I didnt make those saves intentionally)
abilities with double demi:
Str: 58
Dex: 34
Con: 34 (I had a con arti on this from before, definately not necessary or even optimal)
Int: 34
Wisdom: 26
Cha: 34
Using heavy mace.
Pro's: .
- Good defense - 24% extra phy immu means heavy armor immunities in light armor. decent ac and 77% self conceal.
- Max listen for conceal penetration
- Almost a uni tank
- Great saves
- Pally quality fear immune
- Disease immune
- Crit immune from 40 base str + parry for permanant crit reduction
- IOF
- Girding
- Death of Magic (more useful with the rak changes of late)
- Songs - but they arent great
- UMD for gs/mord/etc...
Con's:
- A serious poor-mans bard. Not many songs or curses and they are weak.
- No artist
- No unressistable damage
- No anti-limbo song which is a warchanters most attractive feature in my view.
Here goes:
Race: Dwarf
Subrace: Shard
Creation screen stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 10
Wis: 8
Int: 16
Cha: 12 (can drop this to 10 and then to 8 at each demi iteration and still have 16 cha - add that back into dex/con)
Subrace mod'd starting stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Wis: 8
Int: 16
Cha: 16
Lvl 1-10 Bard
Lvl 11-20 Dwarven Defender
Lvl 21-22 Paladin
Lvl 23-32 Dwarven Defender
Lvl 33-40 Bard
Abilities:
STR every level
Feats:
1) Blooded
3) Toughness
6) Dodge
9) Still Spell
12) Weapon Focus
15) Power Attack
18) Cleave
21) Great Cleave
24) Improved Crit
26) Epic Weapon Focus
27) Over crit
30) Dev Crit/Epic Prowess
33) Curse Song
36) Power Crit
39) Armor Skin
skills:
Max Perform at 43 on bard lvls
Max Tumble at 43 on bard lvls
Max Disc at 43
Max Listen at 43 (not pal lvls)
Max Parry at 43 (not DD lvls)
31 pts in UMD
Legendary Abilities:
All str
Legendary Feats:
LSA: Tumble
Greater Weapon Focus
LWF
G Str 1
G Str 2
G Str 3
G Str 4
Legendary Skills:
Tumble to 60
Max Persuade to 63 (After Warchanter perform in LL mod is in)
Max Disc to 63
Max listen to 63
Leaves 52 points
CA to 20
Dump rest in conc 32
Tome: Illusion for 2% EV conceal
Pandect:
Arti: Pretty wide open.
I'm very unsure about this build. I'm actually marginally unsure about the idea of a DD cc warchanter in general. I can see how a dexer bard CC might make a nice melee bard, but the STR/DD version seems to give up alot versus other DD builds.
Will the song be viable at all? Clearly I wont be the solo bard on mala - Nessus w/out UUU, but will it be viable from tia-malb? Not sure if there are enough songs either.
After demi, will the extra cha count vs minimum cha necessary to cast epic chants? i.e. is 14cha + single demi enough?
Question: WF mace, light hammer, or heavy flail are required for quasi, but could you simply take WF light hammer, and then take another WF and another series of foci and be able to use a completely different weapon? That seems like cheese/exploit.
Another question. Weapon Focus; Mace doesnt exist... weapon focus light mace and weapon focus heavy mace DO exist... is it one of these or both?