|
Post by anar12 on Jun 23, 2010 8:34:48 GMT
This quasi-class is pretty much non-existent right now. Maybe adding additional damage types: divine, piercing, bludgeoning would be worth considering.
Having 7 possible threading damage types would add more knowledge aspect to the build. Also this could be a boost this quasi-class needs.
Let's say this could work like this: 14 WM level: divine damage added 16 WM level: piercing damage added 20 WM level: bludgeoning damage added
|
|
|
Post by Naeblis on Oct 25, 2010 18:36:22 GMT
This might actually resurrect the class.
|
|
|
Post by polimetral on Oct 25, 2010 20:39:03 GMT
Indeed would be a nice idea to make the class more attractive, though it wouldn't be much coherent with the quasi's theme of draining life of enemies (negative dmg) to heal allies.
|
|
|
Post by Naeblis on Oct 25, 2010 20:47:50 GMT
It still is draining life, it's just that it is using the most effective damage to do so.
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Oct 25, 2010 21:03:08 GMT
Are you suggesting these as replacements to the existing damage types? Not bad but I'm not sure I like changing the damage types if anything to me it might be best to increase their SR reduction. I can't tell how long the SR down lasts and if it stacks with itself.
|
|
|
Post by gandoron on Oct 25, 2010 21:08:39 GMT
Lifethreader are essentially non-existant (as with a couple of other classes like BK). I loved my threader. A stacking SR drop would be GREAT. Also allowing threaders a couple more damage types and potentially not healing would be great.
-G
|
|
|
Post by Naeblis on Oct 25, 2010 21:18:24 GMT
Are you suggesting these as replacements to the existing damage types? Not bad but I'm not sure I like changing the damage types if anything to me it might be best to increase their SR reduction. I can't tell how long the SR down lasts and if it stacks with itself. I think the suggestion was to add the damage types not replace, to give the threader more choices for damage types.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Dec 3, 2010 8:17:26 GMT
I'm definitely in favor of this or basically anything else that would make this quasi as attractive as it (from what I've seen) once was. Quas-Classes were one of the first things that really caught my eye when I was looking into HG, and Lifethreader immediately struck a chord with me. I fully intended to play the you-know-what out of threaders, because everything about them seemed like it was plucked directly from my subconscious list of "what should exist in this game". It was pretty disappointing to discover--the more research I did and the more people I talked to--that, above and beyond the whole subbie stumbling block (yeah, casters are casters; no problem!), nowadays they evidently just plain weren't that great. Depending on who I was listening to, they either sucked or were still fun, but everyone seemed to agree that there wasn't much value or fun in playing threaders now. Now don't get me wrong; this isn't a rant of any sort, nor is it meant to be any kind of insult or critique at the developers. However, I hate to see a build option as cool and unique (for me at any rate) as the Lifethreader basically "sitting on the shelf" while a new quasi-class has actually been introduced. Again, I'm well aware of the limitations imposed on me--as a prospective LT-builder--that are simply either basic NWN mechanics or basic HG mechanics, and in no way a result of lack of attention or care. That doesn't stop me from wanting and trying (I've made several attempts so far; the latest actually died earlier tonight after an extremely enjoyable and luck-filled 13-level career ). The fact that I play HC and willingly limit myself to an even larger extent when it comes to attempting a Threader doesn't stop me. The fact that I know it's unlikely to even get a toon built as a threader to threader status alive and un-deleted doesn't stop me. Due mainly to my self-imposed HC limitations, I even gave up on the idea of trying the build-type I would prefer--max WM levels, glass cannon approach--in favor of a total healing/support oriented toon that would, if it made it, be a great addition to party play. But what stops me is the fact that I know it's mainly just my stubbornness and (for example) desire to actually see the lifethreading mechanic in action on my screen that makes me want to play one. From a realistic standpoint, this quasi seems to me to truly be dead in the water. If something makes a player like me, who normally doesn't mind and even thrives off of building toons that exist in the full eclipse of the "flavor of the month" classes--that's saying something. Anyway, a bit of a long rant; sorry but this topic just touched me since I was thinking about all this stuff earlier tonight and in the past. I think it's tempting to feel like the Lifethreader can either be too good or ... well, like it is right now. Maybe that's part of the underlying situation. I'm sure there are plenty of people who still play their Threaders or even build new ones, and enjoy them, and I'm sure that people still enjoy having one in their party on runs. But I just think it's sad to see such a cool and unique concept and mechanic gather dust, while the eternal nerf-buff cycle never seems to change some of the other classes enough to make people stop playing them. Just my two cents. Sorry for the misguided hijack attempt ; as far as the OP goes I don't have much in the way of ideas myself, having virtually no room at all to talk. However, I think that damage types are such an important part of HG that a simple change like this could easily make threaders more attractive overnight--after all, look! The vets think so too!
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 3, 2010 17:48:14 GMT
LTs haven't changed much at all, and they're capable of outdamaging a party. IoF was also 'out of favor' once, so if you want edits made to a class, you need a more compelling reason.
Funky
|
|
|
Post by gandoron on Dec 3, 2010 18:50:30 GMT
LTs haven't been changed directly, but there have been a number of changes that have impacted them. - Introduction of physical immunities significantly impacted the slashing damage. This was a good thing and made the other damage types actually useful - Areas in the abyss, more disarming and other factors made it more likely for threading to stop - The introduction of more "no hit mobs" primarily in the abyss, combined with random encounters (another very good thing, made it so that you never knew when you needed to have threading turned off for a spawn.
LT can have very high damage (Tia is a great end-game example), but the focused damage is still quite low. So basically most of their damage is wasted on either trash mobs or regen. Essentially a high damage tank could immediately target all the "soon to be insta'd" mobs to ramp up his damage score, but not fill the party needs. In traditional end-game runs, a LOT of these types of mobs are insta'd so the damage really can be ignored for comparison.
I used to love my LT, now he never gets played. I almost never see any. I’m not trying to play the “they got nerfed so everyone stopped playing them. Give them more power”. However, I do think they could use some help. Personally Divine Shield AC or Gate would be huge, but that’s likely very overpowering.
-G
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 3, 2010 19:25:21 GMT
See, those are actual reasons. What about the ability to specify targets to avoid threading, via a command? Funky
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Dec 3, 2010 20:19:52 GMT
Like a focused thread could be neat but I think it would be nice to see a few options for it to change the way a threader and function. Perhaps upgrade the threading tool, or add another tool, to allow the player to make a swift action that does a single thread attack to 1 target. The damage and healing are to target and player only and both get a boost maybe +0.5x multiplier to each for level 50 and level 60 allowing a max of +1x multiplier. Maybe limit the uses per day but if it is only a 1x max increase in output and a swift action it seems a costly move but still useful. Please anyone against it suggest better or change it to what you think would be better.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Dec 3, 2010 20:58:37 GMT
For the record, I was also getting at HG changes affecting LTs--not LT changes themselves. Like gandoron, I definitely wasn't trying to pull that "card" out (the "QQ, my fave [spell/class/whatever] got nerfed", do something about it plzkthxbai!" card). Although again, I really don't know what I'm talking about, I feel like I do have enough familiarity with the general mechanics here to know that what has caused this "non-existence" of LTs isn't anything to do with the quasi itself; it's just the things that gandoron mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by dodrudon on Dec 3, 2010 21:37:22 GMT
Maybe give Lifethreaders a swift-action targeting item for each damage type they have available, and you pick individual targets with those, and you continue channeling those threads as long as the mob is alive and you're in range. Might be too much clicking though?
And perhaps give other ability threads, in a similar vein as above, that lowers SR or immunities, or something else, basically you get one thread per target and you choose what you want to do to that target (with the choice available to immediately AoE one single ability type to all targets in range).
Friendly: buff damage, AC, restore each round, AB, skills... Enemy: lower [something], [element] damage...
|
|
|
Post by gandoron on Dec 3, 2010 22:04:41 GMT
I personally have a wis based Cleric CC threader. I think it's worthwhile to make sure that any changes account for the various varieties of threader (there's not really that much flexibility, generally WM (str or dex with uni), Cleric (wis or uni)).
It would be cool to see LT actually get some spells (like BT) that would work on LT levels, or even just have the SP potions work on LT levels (giving cleric CC a higher power version). Cleric CC get Epics, GR and low SR spells. While WM get higher damage multi-X, more damage types and normally more melee damage (though you could do WM CC wis based, I've just never seen it).
I don't want to highjack this thread, but BaneKnights got decimated more than any other quasi by server changes (particularly physical imm% and Bigby grab/kd changes), imho.
-G
|
|