BFMs and DSMs

[drunkenboaster]

I have a suggestion to change the way the DCs are calculated for BFM's and DSM's spells. I would like to see it so the quasi's spell's DCs would either be charisma or strength, whichever is higher. A typical x2 demi, rdd control class bfm, with +14 str item, would have a 76 str at most. The highest a bfm could get with a 18 sorc 22 rdd, half-orc salamander, x2 demi, +14 str item, str artifact, LL evocation, would be 84.

The DCs do seem high, but the spell selection is limited for bfms and with the high high str, and there are no other sorc DC spells to fall back on. This change would add new life to the quasi by making a bfm tanks more fun to play because of the ability to able to use spells offensively.

[Yojimbo]

The problem is often the xDD CCs are solid tanks with moderate fire power from spells added in and a decent set of buffs. This makes me less inclined to suggest they get STR based DC maybe 2/3 STR Mod DC this would likely give them more DC than before and make xDD CC casters more viable.

I also suggest Bloodfire Mage and Dragonstorm Mage be consolidated and renamed into Dragonblood Mage, DBM, and we get Acid (GDD no Black) and Cold (WDD). Obviously the spell selections will be different for each so in code they would be separate quasis but for build guides they will be the same sans spell selection. The wiki page could be 1 to cover all elemental variants with each spell list broken up by element with any shared ones consolidate. I just figure with how identical the builds are and my desire to have Acid and Cold varients I would add this suggestion to your thread hope you don't mind.

[drunkenboaster]

Moderate Firepower? I can think of very few instances where a bfm tank would do more damage with spells than with a weapon. The BFM tank of today's ability to damage with spells is a shadow of the first bfm tank I ever made. At one time it was a fun toon to play with the option to contribute as either a caster or a tank, really now a bfm tank is really just a plain old tank.

I was tempted in my post to suggest 9/10 strength, but did not. For comparitive reasons, a piriah can get to an 80 con, where truely the highest str a playable bfm tank could get would be 78, with 76 being more realistic. Comparing to the sorc control class version, a sorc can get 76 charisma, can channel, and can contribute with other spells as it will have a same high dc.

The sorcerer controll versions of DSMs and BFMs are not at all popular anymore either, would bet most are now either sorcerers or needing to be reinced into a sorcerer. I would like to see the quasi givin a chance to be worth playing again.

[gandoron]

There are many times that either brands (old version) or meteor shower would do more damage than Melee for my 20/19/1 LWF no OC/DC Str BFM build, but these were rare. with the change in brands I'm guessing it would be mainly melee for damage an a few specialty spells, like BB6.

-G

[shardelay]

The str bfm's spells went from being situationally AWESOME, to being situationally mediocre (Ichors are the best example). It's still the best choice for the str-bfm on certain mobs, but it's a worse choice than an AA, staffy, sorc, etc...

I like it, but I'd restrict it to real tank bfms with other requirements. Give tank bfms with str higher than cha 1/2 str mod with normal WF, 7/10 with EWF, and 10/10 str mod with LWF. This forces the str-bfm to actually spend feats on melee and not just shortcut his way to ultra high dc.

Another suggestion for the str-bfm, give his FW even more dice. A regular 46+ FW now gives 4 dice, a bfm gives 5. Make a str bfm give 6 dice to others and 8 dice to himself. If the str bfm is a melee toon, make sure his fire-based melee attack reflects this.

Add this to the con arti proposal to merge with dragon breath for more than 1 cast per rest and he'll start doing situationally alot of fire damage and also boost the entire parties fire damage.

Add a fire imm debuff to incendiary cloud like the old druid fire debuff spell and we're heading somewhere.

Wanna go nuts? Have a tank-bfm's dragon-aura add 50% permanant fire immunity to all party members in its range.

Wanna go crazy? Remove kickback from a bfm's his elemental shield and boost it's damage by 50%.

Insanity? Add a fire and bludge buffet to the wing buffet. Make it a non-loot-breaking fireball + lesser orb of force clone for unlimited small AE fire/bludgeon damage.

[jonuhey]

Wanna go nuts, crazy with high level of insanity?? Make brands the way they were before and just make Asmo (and other big big bosses too) immune to Firebrand and Ball lightining.

[StrykerOfChaos]

Jul 30, 2010 14:08:43 GMT @jonuhey said:

Wanna go nuts, crazy with high level of insanity?? Make brands the way they were before and just make Asmo (and other big big bosses too) immune to Firebrand and Ball lightining.

I'd much rather have what shard suggested than a one-trick pony Casting Tank...

[Yojimbo]

Looking at the math a max STR xDD CC with full 50 xDD levels could reach 80 STR after double demi and arti in +14 gear. This results in a STR mod of 37 at 9/10 mod, rounding down, you get 33. I figured max CHA with only 10 xDD levels could reach 76 CHA after double demi and arti in +14 gear. The mod for the CHA CC Sorc would be 33 which is the same as 9/10 the xDD. Given the xDD's tanking prowess and loss of spells greater than 5th lvl it seems fair to put their stat mod on equal footing. So I would raise it from 2/3 to 9/10 STR mod if the STR mod is greater than the CHA mod. I also looked at xDD casters, full spell selection but 20-22 xDD levels pre LL, the mod differences are 35 STR mod vs 29 CHA mod applying the 9/10 to STR brings it down to only 31 STR mod which is still greater making the xDD cc caster much more viable but still weaker than the CC Sorc with maxed CHA.

[jonuhey]

Jul 30, 2010 14:23:37 GMT StrykerOfChaos said:

Jul 30, 2010 14:08:43 GMT @jonuhey said:

Wanna go nuts, crazy with high level of insanity?? Make brands the way they were before and just make Asmo (and other big big bosses too) immune to Firebrand and Ball lightining.

I'd much rather have what shard suggested than a one-trick pony Casting Tank...

Imo the best way you can go for tank bfm is 3bg or paladin/12sorc/25rdd... and that only gives up to lv 6 spells. Going with more sorc levels hurts on the feats and dropping levels of 1 BAB class drops considerely your tank capability.

I really liked my "one-tricky pony casting tank". It was the tank I liked more to play and mine has 40mil xp and only x1 demi... and hes "retired" for over 1 year already waiting on nessus to get x2 demi (not because hes not capable, but because of time in RL). If I had more time he would be x5 demi already Now hes a "one nerfed tricky pony casting tank" and I still like him a lot

Anyway, I didnt compare my ideas to shard's as they are kinda different and both could exist at the same time. I just used the "crazy" theme for a fun factor.