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Post by Hercules on Jan 20, 2011 9:48:45 GMT
Greater Ruin - Does 70d6 damage to the target. - Receives an extra use per day at 50 base Spellcraft. - When cast using the feat, the target must make a Fortitude save against a DC of (CL + 5) or be reduced to quivering jelly. - To be immune to this effect, the target must be immune to mind spells, death magic, the Implosion spell, and be immune to critical hits or have a Parry skill of 100 or higher. nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Skill_pointA number of selections in builds (classes, feats etc) require actual points/ranks. Here is the req for PDK. Skills: intimidate 1 rank, listen 2 ranks, persuade 1 rank, ride 2 ranks, spot 2 ranks -G Hi Gand and thank you for your reply. The problem is exacly the thing you highlight in your post, spellpower, but i am not arguing if i got enough points or not. in your post it says i need 50 base points. I thought since I was naked at lvl 60 when i took those last points, that would be sufficient, thats not the case. Now, what confused me, and still do, is the fact that int modifier (I got int 12 = modifier +1) interfears in the base points total, which means in this case I should subtract one point from my total base points ending me at 49 points instead of the required 50 points. This is understandable. the big trouble is, and that no one can seem to explain, is according to MightyKhan's DM check, I am missing 2 points to get 50 base spellpower. this is what puzzles me, and this is what I am trying to figure out. The fact that I am missing points (one or two) doesn't move me at all, since I will take those missing points as soon as paragon leveling hits us. the confusing part for me is tha fact that you need to remember all those modifiers and how they influence points located in skillpoints, but when you take a look at requirements to str, int , dex etc etc all "extra points" ( from subraces or via lvl ) adds to be base points. The only thing not counting as base points here is added from gear. conclusion:I wanna know exacly how many points I need to take extra to get GR, and how to calculate it. I don't wanna guess or "try and error" by putting one and one point at each paragon level. this is essence in my problem, plain and simple ~Herc
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Post by Rain on Jan 20, 2011 10:01:21 GMT
If you have done any pre-LL tags, you will most likely get bonus spellcraft points from some of them.
Anyway, I don't really see how this can be so complicated. No matter what your int modifier is, just make sure you choose "I want to take as many skill points as I can" in Spellcraft when u take your 47th lvl, it will automatically give you 50 base spellcraft.
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Post by Torin on Jan 20, 2011 10:07:10 GMT
!list skills is your friend.
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Post by KnightErrant on Jan 20, 2011 15:57:25 GMT
Herc, It doesn't matter what your sheet says....you must actually select/spend 50 skill Points....that is you must click on "take Spellcraft" 50 times if taking points every level or "give me as many as I can take" at level 47.... or higher level tho that would result in excess points....only the 50 points you actually spend count for Greater Ruin, not any you get from Abilities, Accomplishments etc... (I'm not sure if the plus points a race gets count or not-(like Treant gets +5), never checked).
Hope that makes more sense, KE.
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Post by Hercules on Jan 20, 2011 17:02:15 GMT
Herc, It doesn't matter what your sheet says....you must actually select/spend 50 skill Points....that is you must click on "take Spellcraft" 50 times if taking points every level or "give me as many as I can take" at level 47.... or higher level tho that would result in excess points....only the 50 points you actually spend count for Greater Ruin, not any you get from Abilities, Accomplishments etc... (I'm not sure if the plus points a race gets count or not-(like Treant gets +5), never checked). Hope that makes more sense, KE. Hi Brad and thx for reply You nailed it ! The blur is beginning to lift its curse on me for sure. what you said makes perfect sence to me, and I do understand the consept of clicking the spellpower 50 times, regardless what the sheet says. I also understand the fact What i Should have done at lvl 47, but was unavare of at lvl. I still haven´t got the final question answered, how many points do Ineed to take now, to correct my mistake already done. This will be the answer of the century, like the fight of Asmodeus. The epic final battle Speaking of that, I wanna demi my Sorc ASAP ! Herc
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Post by phalthallus on Jan 20, 2011 18:04:23 GMT
Herc, It doesn't matter what your sheet says....you must actually select/spend 50 skill Points....that is you must click on "take Spellcraft" 50 times if taking points every level or "give me as many as I can take" at level 47.... or higher level tho that would result in excess points....only the 50 points you actually spend count for Greater Ruin, not any you get from Abilities, Accomplishments etc... (I'm not sure if the plus points a race gets count or not-(like Treant gets +5), never checked). Hope that makes more sense, KE. Hi Brad and thx for reply You nailed it ! The blur is beginning to lift its curse on me for sure. what you said makes perfect sence to me, and I do understand the consept of clicking the spellpower 50 times, regardless what the sheet says. I also understand the fact What i Should have done at lvl 47, but was unavare of at lvl. I still haven´t got the final question answered, how many points do Ineed to take now, to correct my mistake already done. This will be the answer of the century, like the fight of Asmodeus. The epic final battle Speaking of that, I wanna demi my Sorc ASAP ! Herc As someone else mentioned, !list skills will tell you how many base points you've put in something. That will tell you what you've spent, and how shy you are of the 50-mark.
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Post by redbeard on Jan 21, 2011 1:52:33 GMT
(I'm not sure if the plus points a race gets count or not-(like Treant gets +5), never checked). I ran into this when leveling an Atomie rogue. Atomie gets +5 Pick Pocket. I took 4 points at character creation and then was unable to take more points in PP until about level 7. It looks like the subrace skill points are included in the invested points.
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Post by MightyKhan on Jan 21, 2011 8:11:26 GMT
yes, subrace points are added to your character as base ranks, hence the ability of salamanders to start with RDD at level 2.
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Post by chainlink on Jan 21, 2011 10:47:19 GMT
Subrace additions all kick in as you move off the boat ramp the first time, skill points add to what you'd allocated on character creation which means that until you reach a level at which you can increase the skill beyound your level capped limit (4 at level 1, 5 at level 2, etc) you will not be able to add to it on levelling. Stat points add to the stats you'd allocated at creation so for example a Juggernaut (Half-Orc base race) would be able to begin with 20 Str (+2 from Half-Orc) then on exiting the ramp would be boosted up to 26. You have to be slightly careful with feats as during creation the game does not take into account any HG specific race feat additions so it is possible to take a feat that you will be given for free on exiting the ramp and waste it.
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Post by Rain on Jan 21, 2011 14:35:19 GMT
I think this build is actually very slacking to play compared to a DC sorc, but since I was asked in game a few times about how to max the damage power on this build and also got a pm earlier, I think I'll write a brief guideline for playing this sorcerer.
Offense: - Before Battle: Set x2 Max'ed evard and 1 Max'ed aoe damage cloud(depending on what kinda mob combo will be on the spawn spot), If you still have time, set Delayed Blast Fireball traps if the mob spawning aren't 100% fire imm. But doing all above u have to make sure there wonot be any party kb mob spawning. - In Battle: If the spawning mob happen to do party kb(like some random spawns), click ur !cancel aoe quickbar asap. If not, Spam your aoe damage spells on a mob swarm or Spam Empower'ed Greater Orb on a single target. (Note there're some mob with extremely high concealment, like dogai, asmo, Dybbuk. aoe spell will work far better than orb on these. And there're mob with Evasion, like swarm master. orb will work better than aoe spell on these.) Also if you play in hell where there're mob who can gust your aoe clouds like pitfiend, malebranche. Make sure to refresh evard on pf when it's gusted. If there're party kb mob around, Don't cast aoe damage spells unless ur 100% sure of your range controlling ability, in this case, use Empower'ed Orb instead. Or simply channel 2 and insta kill those kb mob first with Gust of wind or Disintegrate. - After Battle: 1. Cancel your aoe. it's not only for lag's sake, but for your damage's sake. Cuz if you cast another two evards when there're two existing, only the later one applies. 2. refresh Energy Buffer after a few fights where there're lots of elemental kb mob around.
Defense: This isnt a mage that can cast in front and do a bit of tanking so make full use of your uber defensive spells: Extended Ghostly Visage, Etheral Visage and Gate. A few things I'd like to point out: - It's a good habit to reset your new gate point often after a fight by !gateset(this together with !cancel aoe should be quicksloted) so you can escape easily to that spot when surrounded or stuck. This is extremely useful in a random spawn. - DON'T FIGHT BEFORE YOU'RE FULLY BUFFED. Seriously, it's simply stupid to attack before you're buffed. Cuz you live on buffs. This I especially mean when you die or dispelled. I've seen too many mage players attack immediately right after rez'ed. - About positioning, I can't say for sure which is the best since each player has its own playing style. But one thing that needs noticing is that if you can't make sure ur casting all the time when mob near, simply GV and retreat back a bit. I've seen quite a few players panic when mob swarm at him, then run around getting AOO instead of just GV. - the Epic spell Contingency. You can actually get two uses per rest by activating it first and rest again. When you die, activate it again. It's always a good habit to make sure you have no Continency left right before u rest.
This is merely what I can think of for some basic tactics when playing mage. The best way to learn to play casters is by watching other casters play, especially from vet caster players. But even by watching some new caster players, you can still learn from the other side: What not to do.
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Post by desocupado on Jan 25, 2012 20:55:05 GMT
I've been using this build, and have found it quite fun. I've been trying some adjustments on spell selection, and could use some help (changes are in orange):
lvl 1 spells: Endure Elements Expeditious Retreat Grease Protection from alignment Ice Dagger -> Shelgarn Persistent Blade // As I believe it can reach tier 60 with maximize Horizikauls Boom<->Ice Dagger
lvl 2 spells: Ghostly Visage Flame Weapon Shock Weapon Darkness Combust -> Cloud of bewilderment // Provides some extra crowd control Melf's Acid Arrow <-> Vocalize <-> Web // I'm not sure how useful is melf's
lvl 3 spells: Gust of Wind Keen Edge Mestils Acid Breath Displacement Clarity
lvl 4 spells: Evards Black Tentacles Orb: Electricity Orb: Sonic Elemental Shield Remove Curse
lvl 5 spells: Energy Buffer Freezing Fog Lesser Spell Mantle Vitriolic Sphere Bigby interposing hand -> Summon Creature V // The summon update made this option very atractive, as you can summon the high tier stuff using !mm channel 2
lvl 6 spells: Ethereal Visage Freezing Sphere -> Legend Lore // I got Polar Ray for Cold area damage, and find the Lore boost invaluable. Perhaps I'm missing some gear options Chain Lightning Disintegrate Acid Fog (Extra Spell Known 6)
lvl 7 spells: Greater Orb: Cold Greater Orb: Acid Greater Orb: Fire Thunderclap Delayed Blast Fireball (Extra Spell Known 7)
lvl 8 spells: Incendiary Cloud Premonition Mind Blank -> Polar Ray // Is player cast MB that useful? No clue here Greater Sanctuary
lvl 9 spells: Gate Mordenkain's Disjunction Weird -> Meteor Swarm // I find having spammable, non-loot breaking, wide area high DC divine damage really handy Bigby's Crushing Hand Power Word: Kill (Extra Spell Known 9)
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Post by Lee on Jan 26, 2012 7:10:25 GMT
lvl 6 spells: Ethereal Visage Freezing Sphere -> Legend Lore // I got Polar Ray for Cold area damage, and find the Lore boost invaluable. Perhaps I'm missing some gear options I would keep freezing sphere, it is better than polar ray imo. Yes we do cast MB, it's very useful to protect you from various mind effects. If you play your sorc in LL areas only, it's fine to take meteor swarm. But I would never replace weird for MS which is useless for end games.
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Post by desocupado on Jan 26, 2012 10:55:24 GMT
What bugs me about it is: Does MB lose any benefits when cast from items? Seems to me that the Lesser Mind Blank do, but the "greater doesn't. This is getting me confused, perhaps it is a hidden aplication like CL 41+ Death Ward and Freedom of Movement protect against some stuff items don't.
Thinking about Hells, MS advantage is working on all colors Abishai, Pit Fiends and Malebranches. What about combustion? Is it viable on a non-BFM? Can Weird really be sucessful with this low dc (i.e. no Focus and 1 less DC than max)?
Thanks for the help.
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Post by fallenwizard on Jan 26, 2012 13:22:39 GMT
Melf's/Combust at lvl 2 are both great single target spells, but the build does acid an fire orbs so the uses arent all that often, other than offering lower spell level cast that doesnt scale off concealment, however combust needs to hit. I'd definetly keep Melf's at least.
Freezing sphere is the damage spell in many occasions, holy trinity of instant damage spells (not cloud types) are Freezing sphere, Thunderclap and Deleyd fireball - any damage caster imo should have all these 3. I'd never ever take Polar ray over Freezing sphere if I get a choice. Hitting Polar ray on multiple targets that all take cold is often impossible, enemies tend to form a line infront of your tank and as a sorc you cant run next to them to position for optimal ray.
Greater mindblank is somewhat situational use, I have it on my Pariah to wake up/un confuse multiple allies at once with half roun action in abyss where sleeps/confuses comes in much larger numbers than they do in Hells. However, I do note in the build post somewhere that swapping it for greater spell breach would be viable option and rely n scrolls, which are slow, oh so slow, to use. For LL/Hell I propably wouldnt bother with greater mindblank.
While levelling up Meteor is truly awesome spell, but in hells/abyss the cast range is quite gimped and most things you can nuke with 2 different type of elemental spells that'll do in most cases more damage (1 cast of each) than 2 meteors would - at much better range. Weird is still usefull, wont kill raks before they are cursed like some higher DC's can but after debuffs it will land - same for many others.
About Shelgar's blade (and other summons), maximized/empowered spell only adds on their ac/ab/(possibly saves/skills) not on the summon level, I dont remember what shelgar's modifier is, but the build gets 60CL -7 + 4 foc +0-4 random -X from shelgarns, so if it is below -1 it wont reach 60, with -1 there's 20% chance of doing so (Summon Creature I is -3 at same level, so it most likely is the same which'd make it 54-58).
Also about lore, iirc Tia caster set gives around 30 ranks of lore and Fist Wrap (robe that prtty much everyone uses) gives 10 lore, so even if you miss 1 of the Tia ites you'd get 30 with wrap + song for max lore, +5 with prell tags, with a bit lucky rand on wrap with PreLL and 3 pieces of Tia gear you can hit even the cap without song/prayer, personaly I wouldnt bother with leg lore unless you plan not to use the said Tia items and do lots of runs without bard. Although, another great spell to have while levelling at LL's, I use it all the time with my desert/db bot pariah.
Oh and if you decide that you dont want to have the Mind blank as a spell, I'd suggest grabbing sunburst instead. Personaly I also never pick up GS as a spell because there's GV and GS scrolls, if you have to GS for longer period (say party needs to hide to reform/regroup and set a tactic, scroll + few extend GV and you can use scroll again (with leg illu only need 1 extend GV after scroll before new one) - Or you can use GS from item for longer duration (however this can mess up spell slots to swap gear).
Edit: forgot channeling for summoning the blade, so with lucky roll and max channel it could indeed hit the cap 60, but burns out lvl 1 slots quite fast that way as there isnt really any gear to boost them.
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Post by Lee on Jan 26, 2012 13:29:37 GMT
Sometimes you have to cast mind blank or lesser one to remove mind effects from your party members, confusion for example. Of course You can cast it with an item, but usually it's too slow to save your partners' life.
Equipping a tia staff (SF illusion) or an item with GSF illusion, DC of weird is not bad in fact. Dont forget weird receives +7 DC bonus and sorc can get 2 more DC by channeling. I heard werehound took MS on his damage sorc. But I am not sure about it.
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