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Post by Yomi on Oct 3, 2010 16:30:57 GMT
Curious to see how a dual-weild DwD (dual dw waraxes) would compare with the new damage system. I've been messing around with one in LLs and dropping a pretty good volume of big (500+) crits - fully buffed of course. A heckuva lot more than before. Any one run one through the hells recently? ever? Cata had one, and eons ago there were some floating around: dodrudon and Phandal among others. Personally I always hated Dwarven Waraxe as a weapon. Half the crit range of bastard sword, same multiplier. Unless these have changed? So you're looking at 2 extra attacks, -4 to all ABs, 3 fewer feats, crit range of 17-20 instead of 14-20, loss of ~7 AC and a bunch of cool shield effects. It seems like a poor tradeoff to me. At least one of those feats is coming out of Epic feats which are pretty valuable, and you're really messing up your AB and crit range, plus losing the valuable shield slot. I toyed with using a waraxe or second bastard sword in the offhand on my Tin Can a few times. I think dual bastard swords raised damage output a little, but wasn't very much. Only one extra attack for him though. Cania got more interesting with 19 or so less AC
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Post by gandoron on Oct 3, 2010 16:45:14 GMT
I was on that cania with kins/yomi. He did some good damage, but it's really not a build that's designed for dualing. It would be cool is the dwarven waraxe were made useful it would def breath some life into DDs. I took 6 months to turn my tin can into a staffmaster.
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Post by KnightErrant on Oct 3, 2010 16:54:05 GMT
Curious to see how a dual-weild DwD (dual dw waraxes) would compare with the new damage system. I've been messing around with one in LLs and dropping a pretty good volume of big (500+) crits - fully buffed of course. A heckuva lot more than before. Any one run one through the hells recently? ever? Cata had one, and eons ago there were some floating around: dodrudon and Phandal among others. Personally I always hated Dwarven Waraxe as a weapon. Half the crit range of bastard sword, same multiplier. Unless these have changed? So you're looking at 2 extra attacks, -4 to all ABs, 3 fewer feats, crit range of 17-20 instead of 14-20, loss of ~7 AC and a bunch of cool shield effects. It seems like a poor tradeoff to me. At least one of those feats is coming out of Epic feats which are pretty valuable, and you're really messing up your AB and crit range, plus losing the valuable shield slot. I toyed with using a waraxe or second bastard sword in the offhand on my Tin Can a few times. I think dual bastard swords raised damage output a little, but wasn't very much. Only one extra attack for him though. Cania got more interesting with 19 or so less AC All of the Dual Dwarf Axers I have seen since I have been here have been monk splash... Arch had one that was something like 29 FTR 2 DD 9 Monk Mile-0 had a couple versions, one iirc was a Malephant dexer 35 FTR 2 DD 3 Monk ? iirc, the new weapon edit's will remove the Axe AC bonus from toons made with a subbie that's not listed as a Dwarf...ie "Any" race subbies... KE.
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Post by Balduvard on Oct 3, 2010 17:00:06 GMT
iirc, the new weapon edit's will remove the Axe AC bonus from toons made with a subbie that's not listed as a Dwarf... The slated benefit for this situation as far as I am aware is that any character with Dwarf as their base race will have proficiency for using dwarven waraxes, rather than having to take exotic proficiency. The AC bonus only does not apply if they are a large-sized character, so Maelephant is definitely out on both counts.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Oct 3, 2010 18:11:53 GMT
Yeah I had a Dual Wielding Dwarven Waraxe Dwarven Defender but the damage output sucked so I reinc'd it after it got Demi, now it is a Dex Based Dwarven Defender dualing Katana's And it does better damage Although it was reinc'd before the changes. Cata
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Post by Yomi on Oct 3, 2010 18:26:05 GMT
All of the Dual Dwarf Axers I have seen since I have been here have been monk splash... Arch had one that was something like 29 FTR 2 DD 9 Monk Mile-0 had a couple versions, one iirc was a Malephant dexer 35 FTR 2 DD 3 Monk ? MILE-0 had Tarkus, a 15 Ftr, 7 WM, 18 DD. I don't remember what he was wielding, but like most of MILE-0's toons he belonged in his own damage output category : ). He also had Tarry Greene, a 37 Ftr, 2 DD, 1 Monk, but that was his fighter. Does monk actually buy you anything on a dual-axe DD, other than the standard monk splash benefits? If you're going dual weapon for damage output, I think most people try to continue the theme in the splash class: WM, RDD, or HS. Looking on the Wiki, many were DD/Ftr/WMs -- that's the obvious route. Phandal used 5 HS levels to add bonus attacks instead (this was before any gear that added bonus attacks). Looks like Dod went with a DD/RDD motif. Stryker's is 14 CoT levels, Star says she did something similar but with WM. Chaos had a more recent one with 2 Monk levels.
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Post by starlandra on Oct 3, 2010 22:53:19 GMT
I still have a DD dualing Dwarven Waraxes. It does good damage, and has a WM splash and dev crit for 16-20 x6 crits (it is x6 isn't it? at work no time to look it up). It has good damage, and I have taken her in the abyss as well (single demi but at nessy for x2) I just like my monks a lot more (made a monk CC/dd/wm as well with axe in offhand str based with 141+ ac at single demi... pretty fun as well) but damage still pales compared to a staff monk, staff master, AA, barbarian or a ranger done correctly.
I still think RDD is a great 'new' player class. Hard to kill, good for learning. and you can swap em to a bfm later if you get bored with it.
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Post by Rain on Oct 4, 2010 4:18:18 GMT
The reason why I don't recommend new players play AA is due to the easy party KB aa can create with such a huge radius of auto attack. But I do agree it's a nice class for starter to learn mob's vulerability and also being ralatively safe to play. Staffmaster is half a mage, so defense can be pretty weak if the players have no clue how to make it Gear'ed or rebuff after lots of debuffing in hell/abyss.
Though leaving the high damage output factor alone, I'd recommend Ranger, RDD, Battle Cleric, Barbarian, Tin-can(a DD build from Yomi) for starters who wanna play tank on HG.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2010 10:56:26 GMT
As someone mentioned you can cheat as well......
Phelg is a great run for str tanks of which I have a few. I usually spend the whole time tanking pit fiends (of which there are alot in Phleg) and am about 4th/5th in damage and very low on kills.
Last run I was with a particularly strong party so I cheated (they were all so tough that they didn't even notice what I was up to). I attacked all the non crit immunes I could before I attacked any pit fiends just to see how my damage would work out.....guess what I came top by a mile with 130K+
Did I do a good tank job - no - but I danced my secret 'I is uber jig' anyway....sad as I am.
Kratlin
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Post by Yojimbo on Oct 6, 2010 20:32:57 GMT
As someone mentioned you can cheat as well...... Phelg is a great run for str tanks of which I have a few. I usually spend the whole time tanking pit fiends (of which there are alot in Phleg) and am about 4th/5th in damage and very low on kills. Last run I was with a particularly strong party so I cheated (they were all so tough that they didn't even notice what I was up to). I attacked all the non crit immunes I could before I attacked any pit fiends just to see how my damage would work out.....guess what I came top by a mile with 130K+ Did I do a good tank job - no - but I danced my secret 'I is uber jig' anyway....sad as I am. Kratlin I have had parties where there are enough playing my role I feel more useful trying to take out the trash. It does make ones stats look nice until someone peeks to see what it was on.
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