Shadow Dragon 3 Bard/10 SD/27 XDD

[hackenslay]

I'm trying to make a Dex RDD build with epic dodge and improved evasion. This is what I came up with...feel free to critique away, as this is the first build I've actually posted.


Shadow Dragon 3 Bard/10 SD/27 XDD

stats before subrace modifiers:(all stat points to Dex)
Str 8
Dex 19
Con 6
Wis 8
Int 17
Cha 12

Race - Elf
Subrace - Wraith

* = free race/class feasts

1 Bard
Hide +4, Move Silently +4, Tumble +4
* - Armor Proficiency (light)
* - Armor Proficiency (medium)
* - Assist Other
* - Aura of Courage
* - Bard Song
* - Bardic Knowledge
* - Command Targeter
- Dodge
* - Hardiness vs. Enchantments
* - Immunity To Sleep
* - Keen Sense
* - Low-light Vision
* - Mount Actions
* - Perfect Health
* - Shield Proficiency
* - Skill Affinity (Listen)
* - Skill Affinity (Search)
* - Skill Affinity (Spot)
* - Weapon Proficiency (Elf)
* - Weapon Proficiency (simple)

2 Bard
Tumble +1
* - Bard Song

3 Bard
* - Bard Song
- Mobility

4 Shadowdancer (Dexterity +1)
Tumble +2
* - Hide in Plain Sight

5 Shadowdancer
* - Darkvision
* - Evasion
* - Uncanny Dodge I

6 Shadowdancer
* - Shadow Daze
* - Summon Shadow
- Weapon Proficiency (martial)

7 Shadowdancer
Tumble +3
* - Shadow Evade

8 Shadowdancer (Dexterity +1)
Lore +8
* - Defensive Roll
- Uncanny Dodge II

9 Red Dragon Disciple
* - Draconic Armor
* - Hit Die Increase (d6)
- Weapon Finesse

10 Red Dragon Disciple
* - Dragon Abilities

11 Red Dragon Disciple
* - Dragon Breath, Fire

12 Red Dragon Disciple (Dexterity +1)
* - Hit Die Increase (d8)
- Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

13 Red Dragon Disciple

14 Red Dragon Disciple
* - Hit Die Increase (d10)

15 Red Dragon Disciple
- Greater Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

16 Red Dragon Disciple (Dexterity +1)

17 Red Dragon Disciple

18 Red Dragon Disciple
* - Immunity to Fire
* - Immunity to Paralysis
* - Improved Critical (battleaxe)

19 Shadowdancer

20 Shadowdancer (Dexterity +1)
Tumble +13
* - Slippery Mind

21 Red Dragon Disciple
* - Epic Character
* - Epic Red Dragon Disciple
- Epic Weapon Focus (battleaxe)

22 Red Dragon Disciple

23 Red Dragon Disciple

24 Red Dragon Disciple (Dexterity +1)
- Armor Skin
- Great Dexterity I

25 Red Dragon Disciple

26 Red Dragon Disciple

27 Red Dragon Disciple
- Great Dexterity II

28 Red Dragon Disciple (Dexterity +1)
- Epic Toughness I

29 Red Dragon Disciple

30 Red Dragon Disciple
- Epic Toughness II

31 Red Dragon Disciple

32 Red Dragon Disciple (Dexterity +1)
- Epic Toughness III

33 Shadowdancer
Tumble +7
- Epic Toughness IV

34 Red Dragon Disciple

35 Red Dragon Disciple

36 Shadowdancer (Dexterity +1)
- Epic Toughness V

37 Red Dragon Disciple

38 Red Dragon Disciple
- Epic Toughness VI

39 Shadowdancer
- Epic Dodge
* - Hide in Plain Sight
* - Improved Evasion
* - Uncanny Dodge III

40 Red Dragon Disciple (Dexterity +1)

Anyway, I know I could make better feat choices so feel free to make any suggestions.

[edit] added base stats

[MightyKhan]

What are your starting stats?

[the1kobra]

I've played a dex RDD and double demied one. Grabbing epic dodge is an interesting touch... mine was a standard bard/pal/RDD, was pretty interesting to play. He had DV crit and a humongous AC with a shield, like... 150 range. The pal with RDD's charisma bonuses also meant the saves were extremely high. Aka, I think adding epic dodge is a little (and I mean a lot) overkill on the already insanely high defense. It should also be noted that the character rarely fails stat checks too, the RDD bonuses help a lot, he's got like a 50 STR total in addition to the high dex. Aka I don't think the defense needs a-buffing. The character also gets absurdly high HP.
The issue is the offense however, splitting your stats like that on a 3/4 BAB class means the AB tops out in the low 90s. You can get listen high pretty easily but you're still gonna be missing a lot of your lower iteration attacks. You can also nab DV Crit pretty easy as well. Means you can potentially hit hard on your first few strikes, if you hit. Go bastard sword as well, when you're large you can finesse them and they get real nice crits.

Anyways, if you're going to implement this:
1: Get your Epic Toughness feats first, then fit other things in. You don't want to be late in getting the RDD benefits, especially the INT/CON bonuses.
2: LL feats aren't filled, but you're obviously going to want weapon foci, as much G-Dex as you can get. You don't want your offense to drop behind too much. You'll also need some saves feats, you don't have the pally saves bonus boosting them, you'll need will boosting for sure, and probably some fort too with the 6 starting CON.
3: If you have some spare feats pre epic, and I doubt you do, I'd see if you can fit in the two weapon fighting stuff. Defense will already be extremely high, and the extra two attacks at high iterations can help boost your offense when your party needs you to be hitting hard.
4: You probably don't need the starting 17(18) int, with the INT boosts RDD gets, you'll be fine on skills. I'd invest the points elsewhere, likely CON.
5: I noticed you take martial weapon proficiency as a feat. I'd take exotic and go bastard sword for the better crits. Or, you can use your elf proficiencies and go with rapier or longsword, and save a feat that way.

Anyways, I hope this helps you out.

[hackenslay]

Good points, the1kobra...originally planned on rogue instead of SD and thought the int would buff my AB...then realized I'd need 25-30 rogue levels for it to work.

I had planned on dualing battleaxes and didn't realize I could finesse a bastard sword. He's already a 7th level hardcore so I'll probably have to restart him for the con...my test dummy had almost 1k hp at 40 though

[the1kobra]

You'll get a lot of HP because RDD has D12 hit dice in addition to the CON bonuses AND gets a whole bunch from the epic toughness line, aka you'll have a lot of HP at the end of it all, even with low CON. I'd be a bit concerned about the fort and will saves though.
Also, it might be worth mentioning that you're probably going to want to use a rapier before your transformation, because a bastard sword isn't finesseable until you go large.

I'd also strongly recommend going paladin instead of SD. The low saves -are- going to cause problems and for a dex RDD, you want to be a defensive savant, not going to happen if you're failing saves left and right, plus it gives you some use for your CHA stat. It's also much better for your offense, you get the fourth attack and more BAB out of going 4/6/10 bard/pal/RDD pre epic rather than 3/10/7, 2 AB to be exact. If not paladin, some BAB class, I can understand wanting defense but tbh, a dex RDD gets plenty already, and with the HP that RDDs get you can take a bunch of hits that most dexers won't be able to.

[Senaattori]

Hey Kobra, any chance that you could post that Dex RDD of yours? or link it here if its already in the builds list? Thanks in advance!

[the1kobra]

As I recall, vaguely, mine was an elf half-fiend, though was created before brownies were implemented, and I think brownie might be a little better. Not sure though. Anyways, here's what I recall making:
12/18/12/14/8/12 (elf)
12/24/16/18/6/10 (Half-fiend)
Alternatively, if you're using brownie, you can go with this stat arrangement, feats are the same. Gets 2 more dex, less INT, same HP, more will save. Loses a whole lotta skills which hurts but overall I think you'll have enough for what you need.
12/18/12/14/8/12 (Halfling)
12/26/14/14/10/12 (Brownie)
Pre-epic: 4/6/10 Bard/Paladin/RDD (Take Bard level at 20, alternatively you can go 2/8/10 sorc/pal/RDD, doesn't matter too much)
Take 20 RDD in epic levels.
Feats:
1: Blind Fight
3: Finesse
6: Exotic
9: Weapon Focus
12: IMPR Crit
15: Power Attack
18: Cleave
Epic: Epic Toughness 10, Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin
42: LWF
45: Epic Prowess
48: Great-Cleave
51: OV Crit
54: DV Crit
57: G-Dex 1
60: G-Dex 2
Ending Stats:
32/46/26/24/6/16 (Half-fiend)
32/48/24/20/10/18 (Brownie)

AB(Standard, brownie): 16+10+12+7+25+20+2(CW)-1 = 91
AB(Optimal, doubleD+arty+14): 16+10+12+7+29+20+2(CW)-1 = 95

Well, this is the old build I used, worked pretty well sans low AB. Defensive juggernaut. GWF didn't exist at the time so that isn't included. If you want that, you can come out an AB ahead by changing your starting stats:
12/19/10/14/8/11 (Halfling)
12/27/12/14/10/11 (Brownie)
And then instead of G-Dex 2, take GWF. Comes out 1 AB higher, 60 HP lower, and a small reduction to the already high saves. I think it's worth it myself. Anyways, I hope this helps you out. I realize if you're using a non-BUR sub you're probably going to have to cut some corners, DV crit is probably the first thing I'd hedge, which is a shame because that really gives your offense a boost against non-crit immune targets.

I'll see if I can come up with a wraith version when my brain turns on again.

[Senaattori]

Thanks for that! I just happen to have brownie and might try that build out with it

[MightyKhan]

Dec 14, 2010 16:10:14 GMT Senaattori said:

Thanks for that! I just happen to have brownie and might try that build out with it

I wrote down (and posted) a dexer RDD using brownie that has quite decent AB, even without double demi stats. It might not have the best critical hits, but you can compensate for that by focusing on crit immunes. It also features the feats needed to dualwield, which should help your offense.

[Senaattori]

Legendary Weapon Focus
- Legendary Weapon Focus feats require Epic Weapon Focus in the specified weapon and add +2 to your AB with that weapon. This bonus is increased to +3 if you have the Epic Prowess feat.

Does the Epic prowess feat take effect (ab+2 to ab+3) even if its taken on legendary levels and after LWF?

[BigStick]

I've never tested this, but would assume that it works correctly since your AB is calculated dynamically during combat.

[MightyKhan]

correct, the order in which you take the two feats, legendary weapon focus and epic prowess, does not affect your attack bonus