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Post by KnightErrant on Dec 17, 2010 15:34:27 GMT
IMHO, using Divine Shield is a huge double edged sword...In Hell every Pit Fiend, Hama, Malebranche etc that hits you will take insignificant damage while rewarding you with 50-150 in Kick Back damage...when you struck by a party Kick Back--machine, fume, etc-- mob everyone gets that "reward". I have two shield less Divine tanks that use it for Shield AC and can tell you it can sometimes be a major pain to avoid party KB mobs. .02 KE. I dont think the KB effect is added to divine shield with only 4 levels of paladin. Your right, Never noticed that the KB part doesn't "kick in" till level 21.
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 17, 2010 16:36:45 GMT
I would either keep PLD4 or drop it if you drop it I would just pick up 1 more Sorc and learn more spells. I would absolutely drop divine shield, UR Boot(+16 Dodge +/-1 w/ rand) + Haste from item = +20 Dodge +/-1 from rand only time you would want more is to cover the Hell AC penalty.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 17, 2010 16:54:02 GMT
I would either keep PLD4 or drop it if you drop it I would just pick up 1 more Sorc and learn more spells. I would absolutely drop divine shield, UR Boot(+16 Dodge +/-1 w/ rand) + Haste from item = +20 Dodge +/-1 from rand only time you would want more is to cover the Hell AC penalty. I was actually wondering wether there might be a set of boots that would max out Dodge AC and therefore make Divine Shield irrellevant.
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Post by KnightErrant on Dec 17, 2010 17:46:52 GMT
Any set of Boots with +16 Dodge and Haste-(+4 Dodge)-will hit the +20 cap iirc.
KE.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 17, 2010 17:54:32 GMT
When I get a chance to update, I will modify this build to BDD41, Sorcerer 16, Paladin 3 without Divine Shield.
If I go up to Sorceror 17 I still don't level 9 spells, and the spells and spells slots that I add aren't that useful to the build, whereas an extra level of BDD gives me +1 AC as well as an extra caster level, plus small bumps to some of the Draconic abilities.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 17, 2010 18:53:00 GMT
Any reccommendations on how to use the Feat Slot that will free up?
ESF Evocation comes to mind...
I'm honestly tempted to to trade Armor Skin for LSF Evocation as well...after all, I'm getting +1 AC for the 41st BDD level.
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 17, 2010 19:16:09 GMT
I would definately pick up ESF Evocation and if you plan to take your AC won't be too much in just medium armor so I would probably keep Armor Skin but it is a tough choice between the two. Just a side note you may want to skim over these 3 builds for some ideas none are exactly what you want but they each have something incommon with yours. They are all Bloodfire Mages and not Dragonstorm Mages but ultimately thats just BDD & RE:Elec vs RDD & RE:Fire Open IncineratorIncineratorStorm of FlamesAnother side note I don't think you have to chose BDD before getting the QC I think the QC forces you to BDD even if you didn't choose or choose a different color. I know the Test Chamber does this but thats not a good test for this as it may be scripted somehow for there.
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Post by tomaan on Dec 17, 2010 19:59:00 GMT
Any reccommendations on how to use the Feat Slot that will free up? ESF Evocation comes to mind... I'm honestly tempted to to trade Armor Skin for LSF Evocation as well...after all, I'm getting +1 AC for the 41st BDD level. You need to be able to cast 9th level spells to take ESF. I would take metamagic - empower or maximise....possibly extend. Another option is to take an Epic Toughness feat there and read the Evocation book. Then you can take LSF Evocation (which doesn't require 9th lvl spells, just ESF) and still keep Armor Skin.
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 17, 2010 20:20:16 GMT
I know that Staffmasters can take ESF in LLs with only L15 Wiz can someone confirm that this does or does not work for DSM/BFM?
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 17, 2010 20:34:08 GMT
Another option is to take an Epic Toughness feat there and read the Evocation book. Then you can take LSF Evocation (which doesn't require 9th lvl spells, just ESF) and still keep Armor Skin. That's very interesting. How hard is that to come by? I wouldn't be looking to get LSF Evocation/Armor Skin until about level 60. Can I more or less bank on getting that book by then?
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 17, 2010 20:44:08 GMT
I am now looking at something more along these lines...
Strength 10 (9) +12 =21 +12 =33 (+11) Dexterity 13 (14) =14 +12 =26 (+8) Constitution 10 +6 =16 +12 =28 (+9) Wisdom 8 (5) =5 +12 =17 (+3) Intelligence 15 (16) +4 =20 +12 =32 (+11) Charisma 18 (20) +20+4 =44 +12 =56 (+23)
1) Sorcerer 1 (SF Evocation, Blind Fight) 2) Sorcerer 2 3) Paladin 1 (Weapon Focus) 4) Sorcerer 3 5) Sorcerer 4 6) DD 1 (Rapier Wit) 7) DD 2 8) DD 3 9) BDD 4 (Greater Weapon Focus) 10) BDD 5 11) BDD 6 12) BDD 7 (Power Attack) 13) BDD 8 14) BDD 9 15) BDD 10 (RE Electrical) 16) Sorcerer 5 17) Sorcerer 6 18) Sorcerer 7 (GSF Evocation) 19) Sorcerer 8 20) Sorcerer 9 21) Sorcerer 10 (Epic Weapon Focus) 22) BDD 11 23) BDD 12 24) BDD 13 (Epic Prowess) 25) BDD 14 (Epic Toughness I) 26) BDD 15 27) BDD 16 (Epic Toughness II) 28) BDD 17 29) BDD 18 (Epic Toughness III) 30) Sorcerer 11 (Epic Toughness IV) 31) Sorcerer 12 32) Paladin 2 33) Paladin 3 (Divine Might) 34) Sorcerer 13 35) Sorcerer 14 36) Sorcerer 15 (Epic Toughness V) 37) Sorcerer 16 38) Sorcerer 17 39) Sorcerer 18 (Epic Toughness VI) 40) BDD 19 41) BDD 20 42) BDD 21 (Epic Toughness VII) 43) BDD 22 44) BDD 23 45) BDD 24 (Epic Toughness VIII) 46) BDD 25 47) BDD 26 48) BDD 27 (Epic Toughness IX) 49) BDD 28 50) BDD 29 51) BDD 30 (Epic Toughness X) 52) BDD 31 53) BDD 32 54) BDD 33 (Legendary Weapon Focus) 55) BDD 34 56) BDD 35 57) BDD 36 (ESF Evocation OR LSF Evocation*) 58) BDD 37 59) BDD 38 60) BDD 39 (LSF Evocation OR Armor Skin*)
With Channeling I would be throwing CL 60 DC 44 Lightning Bolts and CL 60 DC 50 Thunderstorms.
Some of the combat stats suffer a little but for 3 level 6 spell slots, I can max out Tenser's Transformation and get the top AB line with 7 attacks and +23 to hit for Rapier Wit and +20 Damage from Divine Might. I will probably rely on that to max out my Strength, Dex and Con and save my equipment for other things.
The big downer is that I'll have to drop some skills...I'll want to keep Concentration & Discipline maxed, and Persuade for lowering SR. Beyond that, I'll see if I can max out Parry and maybe Lore for spell damage and 30 in tumble. I will probably dump CA & CW.
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 17, 2010 21:07:56 GMT
The tomes are easy to get around level 40 but I would go for Spell Penetration over Evocation as Evocation DC is almost always Save for Half Damage which is nice but useless if your not beating SR. you should get +5 SP for being a BFM/DSM so you won't need LSP and Armor Skin I think again is better to keep your AC up for tanking. My view is try and take ESF Evo in LLs if you can't just forget it and pick up LSP and keep Armor Skin.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 17, 2010 21:28:48 GMT
Can you tell me a little more about these Tomes, I am not sure what my options are.
As for Spell Penetration, I could always trade out the Weapon Focus line...
Weapon Focus ---> Spell Penetration Greater Weapon Foncus ---> Greater Spell Penetration Epic Weapon Focus --->Epic Spell Penetration Legendary Weapon Focus --->Legendary Spell Penetration
I would be able to get all four in Evocation and Penetration and could trade Epic Prowess for Armor Skin.
I would lose -8 from my AB but add +8 to Evocation DC and Spell Penetration. I'd also have Persuade to strip SR, and as a Yuan-Ti will have a 65 SR of my own.
I'll have +23 to saves and with Tensor's, Energy Buffer, Displacement and Stoneskin, I should be pretty solid defensively.
Is that a good way to go?
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Post by tomaan on Dec 17, 2010 21:31:35 GMT
The tomes are easy to get around level 40 but I would go for Spell Penetration over Evocation as Evocation DC is almost always Save for Half Damage which is nice but useless if your not beating SR. you should get +5 SP for being a BFM/DSM so you won't need LSP and Armor Skin I think again is better to keep your AC up for tanking. My view is try and take ESF Evo in LLs if you can't just forget it and pick up LSP and keep Armor Skin. My bad. Just checked and you CAN take ESF in LLs. And he's right...the books are not in high demand. You can get one or more during a fairly common LL run or offer to buy (~10-25m gold...depending on who you find).
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 17, 2010 21:45:17 GMT
Can you tell me a little more about these Tomes, I am not sure what my options are. As for Spell Penetration, I could always trade out the Weapon Focus line... Weapon Focus ---> Spell Penetration Greater Weapon Foncus ---> Greater Spell Penetration Epic Weapon Focus --->Epic Spell Penetration Legendary Weapon Focus --->Legendary Spell Penetration I would be able to get all four in Evocation and Penetration and could trade Epic Prowess for Armor Skin. I would lose -8 from my AB but add +8 to Evocation DC and Spell Penetration. I'd also have Persuade to strip SR, and as a Yuan-Ti will have a 65 SR of my own. I'll have +23 to saves and with Tensor's, Energy Buffer, Displacement and Stoneskin, I should be pretty solid defensively. Is that a good way to go? I like the route you have gone and that it has solid AB and defense so I would keep the weapon feats. The Tomes are a book much like the subrace books except it grants you 3 Spell feats 1 for each Spell School and 1 for Penetration but you can only use 1 on a given character/toon.
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