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Post by desolationangel on Dec 20, 2010 16:02:38 GMT
I started this build this weekend, character name Summer Storm (and thanks to all the help I got from everyone).
Even starting at level 3 with a level of Paladin, this character was painful to play before level 6, as is typical with a spellcaster. She couldn't fight and had a very limited selection of weak spells. I found it better to just stand back and plink away with a ranged weapon until I got Rapier Wit at level 6.
She became steadily easier to play after level 6. Rapier Wit allowed her to use her high Charisma bonus and the Dragon Disciple levels made her a little more able to survive. She is still a weak spellcaster, and I expect that she will be until level 21 when she actually recieves the benefits of Dragonstorm Mage, but at least she can solo and/or contribute as part of a group.
I will try and get all the updates made to the build and post them this week.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 20, 2010 16:06:44 GMT
As far as the skills are going, I have been able to keep Concentration, Discipline and Lore maxed, Tumble at half-max and Persuade is almost there. When I get the +2 Int at BDD 9 then I expect to be able to start building Parry and eventually Listen.
I will figure out the exact numbers when I revamp the build.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 21, 2010 16:48:54 GMT
Okay, I've updated the build to reflect the BDD 39/Sorc 18/ Pal 3 status. I've also added some notes on strategies and changes as the build progresses and equipment at the end of the build.
This version loses a little bit in terms of skills, hit points and damage but increases AB and spell DC and gains level 9 spells.
Let me know what you guys think.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 27, 2010 13:17:59 GMT
After some field testing, I made some slight changes in the strategy.
I had thought it would be a good idea to use clothing prior to level 21 so that the build could effectively cast.
However, being a level 4 Sorcerer at levels 6-15 and even a level 5-9 Sorcer at levels 16-20 is more or less completely inneffective.
I've changed the strategy to just grabbing the best available armor and meleeing as best as possible.
I am considering changing the progression so that the build takes the Paladin and Sorcerer levels earlier, saving the BDD levels for later. After all, the Int+2 at BDD level 20 still doesn't come until level 41, but the build will be severely limited without Divine Might and the full range of spells, which it currently doesn't get until the 30s.
What do you think?
Anyway, I'm at level 18 and so far so good. 3 More levels to Dragonstorm Mage and actually being able to put the build to its intended use.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 27, 2010 14:15:00 GMT
I have also changed the Spell List...
I dropped Eagle's Splendor because the potions are so easy to obtain as to make it pointless to have.
I dropped Flame Weapon as it does not stack with Shock Weapon.
I added Invisibility for general usefulness and because I am using Displacement, rather than Improved Invisibility for Concealement.
I also added Cloud of Bewilderment, mostly for lack of anything any more useful.
I also changed the build order so that it gains all of its spells earlier, saving the BDD levels for last. It gets Tenser's at 23 and maxes spells at 31, also gaining Divine Might at 27.
I realized that the full range of spells and Divine Might would be more useful early than the extra HP and AC and +2 Str from the last few BDD levels.
Now, once you hit level 31, it is Blue Dragon Disciple the rest of the way out.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 28, 2010 17:49:08 GMT
Changed the spellbook in light of recent revelations and added a poll...
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 28, 2010 21:01:46 GMT
It is still a little off, some those spells are unavailable for your classes, but I will try and build in the test chamber and figure out what spells are ideal.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 28, 2010 23:39:56 GMT
It is still a little off, some those spells are unavailable for your classes, but I will try and build in the test chamber and figure out what spells are ideal. Yeah, I misunderstood which ones were available...only Shock Weapon and Flame Weapon... I will fix that, but I am coming up with a 3.0 build. I think I can manage to fit in the Spell Penetration line without sacrificing the Weapon Focus line... Any recommendations on spells would be helpful.
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 29, 2010 0:13:55 GMT
Note I have not played a DSM or BFM so Im just going off the DSM list and what I think is most benificial for the spare spells _________________________________________________
Level 1: Lesser Orb of Electricity, Negative Energy Ray, Shocking Grasp, True Strike, Identify The 2 here are really throw aways but those seem the most useful of them
Level 2: Gedlee's Electric Loop, Shock Weapon, Flame Weapon, Vocalize, Ghostly Visage Vocalize can let you cast while silenced if prepped but really of little use and Ghostly Visage can grant a few rounds of Etherealness but will be minimal
Level 3: Lightning Bolt, Scintilating Sphere, Greater Magic Weapon, Needle Point GMW will be low but it can sometimes beat nothing and Needle Point will let you keen your Rapier
Level 4: Stoneskin, Elemental Shield, Orb of Electricity, Improved Invisibilty Imp Inv gets some nice conceal when you lack other sources
Level 5: Ball Lightning, Energy Buffer, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Mestil's Acid Sheath Grt Shadow opens up some spells which is always nice and Mestils grants some Acid Imm for a short while
Level 6: Chain Lightning, Tensers, Ethereal Visage EV will grant 40% conceal and there isn't alot of good options here
Level 7: Great Thunderclap, Greater Orb of Electricity, Static Field
Level 8: Mind Blank, Greater Sanctuary Mind Blank protects from some areas where mind Imm isn't respected and all casters need GS
Level 9: Meteor Swarm(aka Thunderstorm)
__________________________________________________ Anyone else who thinks of better options to these let me know like I said I don't know too much about the class but these are the best I can see.
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Post by chirality on Dec 29, 2010 3:16:08 GMT
Similarly, I've never played one and am very likely even less knowledgeable than Yojimbo in this area--he's surely at least had much more experience partying with and watching other DSMs in action than I have.
That said, his list looks good to me, although I do have a couple comments.
Ghostly Visage: Without any Illusion Foci, the usefulness of this will be extremely marginal (as you point out), and although later on your caster level will make it last much longer than a consumable or usable item, this honestly isn't much better than a Rod of the Ghost or somesuch. It seems to me that False Life would be more valuable for this toon.
Scintillating Sphere: With plenty of pure-damage nukes already, I'm wondering if Gust of Wind might be a better option on this build for its extremely specialized but nonetheless invaluable applications on certain mobs in certain areas.
Greater Shadow Conjuration: Although these spells at first glance seem like a good bet for sorcerers (with their limited spells known), I've found that in practice they honestly aren't worth much. As far as I know there haven't been any HG improvements to this spell to make it more attractive, and to be honest I think this one in particluar is fairly useless. Melf's Acid Arrow seems to be about the only spell here that would be desirable, and without the Lore boost to damage, it would be quite lackluster. You've already suggested Ghostly Visage, and using a higher-level slot to cast it doesn't seem favorable; Web seems unattractive; Summon Shadow even more so; and Minor Globe of Invulnerability may have it's uses but none that seem to merit burning a 5th-level slot. I think a better option here would be to take advantage of a maxed Lore skill and either learn one of the other damage spells, or Wrack. Although Wrack wouldn't exactly be super-useful either, it would at least have applications in some circumstances, and it seems to me that for a DSM, anything that makes her main nukes more effective is worth at least having as an option.
Again, I'm no expert here; just my two cents. Other than those, I think Yojimbo hit the nail on the head here.
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Post by tomaan on Dec 29, 2010 6:12:21 GMT
The only change I would make from Yojimbo's list is dropping acid sheath for Stone to Flesh - doesn't need DC or CL and really comes in handy on several LL runs.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 29, 2010 13:43:28 GMT
Thanks for all the help guys.
I was planning on using Displacement for my Concealment, but I forgot to read the fine print. 1 round per CL is pathetic, especially since it is not a DSM spell and will only get up to 18 CL. I will plan on picking up Improved Invisibility.
Not needing Displacement frees up a slot and keeps me from having to choose between GMW and Needle Point.
One question. I notice the list above does not include any Orbs of Sound. I had been planning to keep those in my hip pocket in case I ran into something that was resistant to electricity to give me a sonic damage alternative.
I can see the wisdom in not reproducing effort, but unless there is something I am missing, I'd rather drop the Orbs of Electricity in favor of Orbs of Sound.
As far as Gust of Wind, unless I am mistaken, my Draconic Wing Buffet should be more effective at dispersing cloudlike AOE effects, and Great Thunderclap will be more effective as a group stun.
Thanks for the help, as obviously beyond the DSM spells, alot of these slots were throw-aways.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 29, 2010 13:56:17 GMT
As I approach level 21, I am considering a reincarnation.
Let me know what you think of the following option.
-Change Persuade to Listen -Drop Blind Fight and pick it up later with Dragon Blood -Drop Greater Weapon Focus -Pick up Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration -Use the Tome for Epic Spell Penetration -Drop Legendary Spell Focus Evocation -Pick up Legendary Spell Penetration
As pointed out by several people, most of the Dragonstorm Mage spells save for 1/2 damage, and the DC is not too shabby, whereas if my spells don't penetrate, I get nothing.
That would get me +8 Penetration and only lose 4 DC and 1 AB.
Is that a good compromise?
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Post by eternal on Dec 29, 2010 14:28:51 GMT
-Pick up Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration -Use the Tome for Epic Spell Penetration - If you use the spell penetration tome then there is no need to take spell penetration and greater spell penetration, that's a waste of two feats.
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Post by desolationangel on Dec 29, 2010 14:39:17 GMT
If you use the spell penetration tome then there is no need to take spell penetration and greater spell penetration, that's a waste of two feats. I did not realize that. Thanks for pointing that out. So if I get Epic Spell Penetration from the Tome I will automatically be at +6 without having to work in SP and GSP? Awesome!
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