Quasi - Mindbender

[Talamanthalon]

What Funky and Team are looking for:

Simple:

Role:
The role of the mindbender is to control the bodies and minds of the monsters that threaten Ascension.

Party/Solo:
Crowd control specialist

Background:
The act of taking control of the minds and bodies of others is in itself evil by nature, thus the PM class requirement.

...
The Order of the Mind is a cult of monks that have delved too deeply into the dark. The original intent of the order was to create a sect of monks skill in the art of mind and body control in the hopes of bolstering the ranks of adventures through the use of the creatures of hells own ranks, to stop the hordes of creatures attacking from the various planes. Unfourtunately, somewhere during their dark research they lost their way. Now the sect has turned more towards their own advancement and goals that remain unknown at this time...

The mindbender is the result of that research, a person skilled not only in the ways of spell manipulation but the discipline of the body and inner chi. The result of this combination of mind and body has allowed anyone proficient in the art of mindbending to blend this deadly combination into powerful abilities that rip a victims mind from their body and leaves them powerless for short periods of time or turn them into puppets to be control by their dark masters.

Class Combo:
PM / Monk

Requirements:
20PM/10Monk
Neutral Evil
Specialist in either Enchantment or Illusion
Spell Focus Enchantment
Spell Focus Illusion

Benefits:
Upon reaching Mindbender lvl the character automatically becomes a specialist in the art of the other school he didn't select, however he/she must select a 2nd school of spells to ban.

Mindbenders gain +2 will save per 10 Mindbender levels.

Spell Penetration:
Calculated the same as Palemasters necromancy benefits for illusion and enchantment.

Monk:
Wholeness of body: Creates a circle of protection around the caster that prevents acts as a mindblank spell cast on anyone entering it. At 10 lvls medium radius, 15 levels huge radius.

Quivering Palm:
Instant cast maze spell

Palemaster:
Summon undead: Summons a sphere of dark energy that lowers the Will of any creature entering it by 2. Stacks with all effects, duration is .5 rds. per Mindbender level.

Deathless master touch: Power word stun as per spell, duration changed to 1rd per 10 Mindbender lvls.

Mindbending:
At lvl 20 and 30 and 40 mindbender lvls the mindbender can select one type of immunity to bypass from the mind effects or enchantment list.

Mind Effects:
Charmed, confused, dazed, dominated, frightened, sleep, and stunned.

The enchantment spells that fall into the mind-affecting category are daze, bane, bless, charm person, doom, sleep, aid, charm person or animal, hold animal, hold person, charm monster, confusion, dominate animal, dominate person, hold monster, war cry, mind fog, mass charm, dominate monster

Spell edits:
No longer necro focused
All enchantment/illusion spells are their focus now

ALL HOLD spells:
Act as the same for cleric hold person, swift casting; hold animal, hold person, hold monster

HG Epic:At lvl 50 mindbender, caster gains access to ONE of the HG epics Enchantment or Illusion for wizard.

Monk attacks:
Mindbender can't use any other weapons then gloves
Attacks are calculated as a Tier 2 class for LBAB calculation

Mindbenders use INT for their AB calculation

======

Cons:
All other spells schools act the same as they do now for a common Palemaster.

=========

Enchantment spells:

Level 0

Daze
Level 1

Bane
Bless
Charm person
Doom
Sleep
Level 2

Aid
Balagarn's iron horn
Blindness/deafness
Charm person or animal
Hold animal
Hold person
Tasha's hideous laughter
Level 3

Charm monster
Confusion
Dominate animal
Level 4

Dominate person
Hold monster
War cry
Level 5

Mind fog
Level 6

Mass haste
Level 7

Protection from spells
Level 8

Mass charm
Level 9

Dominate monster


================
Illusion spells:

Level 0

Level 1

Color spray
Level 2

Ghostly visage
Invisibility
Silence
Level 3

Continual flame
Displacement
Invisibility sphere
Level 4

Improved invisibility
Phantasmal killer
Shadow conjuration (uses base school of spell)
Level 5

Ethereal visage
Greater shadow conjuration (uses base school of spell)
Level 6

Shades (uses base school of spell)
Level 7

Shadow shield
Level 8

Mass blindness/deafness
Level 9

Weird

[FunkySwerve]

Dec 22, 2010 23:13:12 GMT Talamanthalon said:

Class Combo:
PM / Monk

This seems like an awful lot of synergy ac-wise. Have you worked out what the build's top ac would be?

Funky

[Talamanthalon]

I'd recommend something simple like:

By nature, I think, the character will want to focus on their primary stat of INT to get their monk attack AB up. So hopefully this will lower their WIS naturally because of it.

Outside of that I'd say the character should be limited much like rangers are for wisdom bonus

Wisdom AC Bonus
- Rangers with 20 or less Wisdom modifier receive twice their Wisdom modifier as an AC bonus, capped at half their number of Ranger class levels.
- Rangers with 21 or more Wisdom modifier receive their Wisdom modifier as an AC bonus, capped at their number of Ranger class levels.
- To receive this AC bonus, the Ranger must be wearing light armor, must not have a shield equipped, must not have a kama, goad, or nunchaku equipped, and if wielding a melee weapon must wield one which can be equipped in the off-hand.

===========
This would by nature elimate AC as soon as they equip a shield, so basically they should be empty handed at all times.

That in itself is a con to outweigh the benefits of the class as well I'd say.

[Talamanthalon]

Offhand I was also thinking to edit this to allow the character to switch which mind effects they could bypass at rest. This would mean they have a bit greater flexibility but may be overpowering.


The art of mindbending allows the mindbender to refocus his inner chi while at rest and specialize his attacks to the creatures in his general vicinity.

Eg.
Rest 1:
!bypassmind daze
!bypassmind stun
!bypassmind confuse

Rest 2:
!bypassmind charm
!bypassmind mindfog
!bypassmind dominated

Looking to get feedback on this idea for this class as well.

[chirality]

Interesting concept, and I like the fairly unique "take" on the mental domination specialist archetype. Cool class combo (although as Funky stated I'm similarly a bit wary of the synergy existing between monk and pale master) and an unexpected, cool direction to go with this combo.

I don't think I can give much input balance-wise. My suggestion however is to create a different name, as mindbender is a venerable 3e prestige class and almost a bit cliche now. Not trying to insult at all; just my two cents.

As far as your SIMTools command idea goes, I like it. Could be a bit overpowering, as you say, but I think if tweaked properly this basic concept would be great. I think people in general tend to enjoy being able to have such customization and flexibilty with !commands.

I'm wondering if you think it would be possible or not-too-complicated to somehow make it so there are at least two different "paths" to walk, so to speak; one in which monk levels are emphasized and one in which pale master levels are emphasized? As it stands I think there's plenty of room for build flexibility, but it would be interesting to have perhaps a more martially-oriented route available with more focus on using ki powers for the mental-control shtick. Just throwing it out there--not a suggestion at all; as usual just typing as I think.

Overall, nice work.

[Talamanthalon]

Mindbender is just what I threw up there, it wasn't really my first choice either!

To Answer Funkies question directly:

Typical starting stats:
Base/Racial/Levels/Gear+14/Greater/Demix2/Demix4
Assuming Bur (genie): Dex+2/Con+2/Int+6

Dex 12/14/14/28/28/30/32 = Bonus +11
Wis 12/12/12/26/26/28/30 = Bonus +10
Int 18/24/44/58/68/70/72 = Bonus +31


Assuming 8 lvls of wizard+10 lvls of monk = 42 pm lvls (+2base+ac from lvls) = PM ac bonus 22 ac

AC: (Robe)
Base: 32=10+2+20 (pm lvls)
Dex: 11
Wisdom: 10
Armor: 0
Shield: 0 (not allowed)
Dodge: 20
Deflection: 20 - Asmo gloves
Natural: 20 (Strongheart)
Tumble: 2 (max amount of tumble with pm)
Size: 0
Other: 0
===============
Total: 115 AC

Bone Skin: Pale Masters receive +2 base AC at level 1. For every 4 levels thereafter, they receive 2 more AC, as normal. If, however, they have at least 25 base Strength or Dexterity, AC above the base +2 is halved to 1 point of AC per 4 levels.
===============

Again to answer Funky's question, it looks like you wouldn't even need to modify Wisdom AC using wisdom restriction like ranger above on this class you could keep it at full +bonus and not be too concerned. Of course unless my calculations are wrong. Even with increases to Dex and Wis I don't think that 115 AC is too much to worry about as wizards can reach much higher lvls now. Also remember that one of the primary focuses are going to be INT for good DC's on spells, so emphasis will have to be there. Plus the added bonus of increase AB from increased INT really doubles the need for INT to be very high. Also remember the 115AC assumes +20 Dodge/Natural/Deflection which aren't easy to get and may not be appropriate for this build to wear those items.

[FunkySwerve]

115 is workable for sure - though it sounds too low, even knowing there's no shield. I'm probably wrong, though - should would cost around 16 ac, putting you at 131 - though I'd expect another 10+ points from...somewhere... Looks like you skipped CA at a minimum. I'll give this a close look later this evening, since you did pretty much exactly what we're looking for - simple, and with a big enough downside to allow large, worthwhile quasi bonuses to offset. I have some concern about monoponyism, but I'll withhold judgment until I look closer - that's far easier to fix than most other quasi suggestion flaws.

Thanks
Funky

[Balduvard]

From my calculations using the given values:

Levels
Monk - 10
Pale Master - 22 + 20LL

Bonuses
Dex - 11
Wis - 10

AC
Base: 10
Pale Master: 12
Monk: 2
Dex: 11
Wisdom: 10
Armor: 15 (robes have +AC on them)
Deflect: 20 (Artifact)
Dodge: 20
Natural: 17 (Strongheart cannot be used due to base str reqs)
Tumble: 6
= 121

Armor Skin and Craft Armor could be utilized to push this higher. An Abyssal Vestige would also increase AC.

my memory isn't what it used to be...

[arek]

I would guess at an optimal build of 5wiz/10mnk/25(45)PM, for CC PM. Given that, you get the following AC with the stats you gave earlier:

AC: (Robe)
Base: 32=10+2+21 (pm lvls)
Dex: 11
Wisdom: 10
Armor: 15 (BUR Robes)
Shield: 0 (not allowed)
Dodge: 20
Deflection: 20 - Asmo gloves
Natural: 20 (Strongheart)
Tumble: 6 (The minimum cap on Tumble AC is 6, regardless of PM/RDD levels)
Size: 0
Other: 2 (Monk Levels)
================
Total: 136

So, ya, I think that needs to be brought down somewhat. :-)

--Arek

[ElevenOne]

Pale Master AC would be 12 because Legendary Palemaster levels doesn't count for AC calculation. So +2 at lvl 1 and +2 every 4 levels

Just logged my PM to check, and he has 18 other AC, which would be:
2 at level 1
14 from 30/4 levels
+2 from craft armor
Total other ac: 18

And yea, with that mod int it would be really easy to get a +3 ac from craft armor.

[Talamanthalon]

Yep forgot to add the AC from Bur armor robe which would take the 115 to 130AC + 3 from CA so around 133.

I would say the 133AC is about where a top end geared mindbender would land. I'm not sure the strongheart should be taken into consideration as you would sacrifice other stats to meet it's requirements so therefore would be lowering other areas of the build by default. So that would take the build into the 130ish range.

Ethereal Visage would be full power on this build, so I'd say limit the wisdom bonus to be 1/2 wisdom modifier and i'd think you'd be in the typical range of 125ish with full top gear. I don't see that as overpowered as regular arcane casters can reach this amount with full powered EV now.

The majority of his spells disable but don't kill, so he will be relying on melee performance to dispatch enemies in many cases when soloing.