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Post by tomaan on Jan 31, 2012 17:43:29 GMT
I dunno, Melee Humanoid Shifters can do some nifty damage in hells. I just got my Humanoid Shifter demi x 1 and did around 290k damage. Cata Is that a Shifter CC build? I would expect more damage out of that because of the shifter levels, whereas this version gives you better defense (from Ranger spells). I just did a Dis run entirely as a Risen Lord and led the party in damage -- but still didn't crack 100K. Getting OC/DC unarmed strike would probably change things quite a bit. |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jan 31, 2012 20:42:18 GMT
Well it's the Liquid Blade Build I posted. It doesn't have OC/DC Unarmed and did around 80k damage but we did have to Clerics on the run and they ploded the heck outa the place. Defense why I suffer from lack of defensive spells I guess but then with Mass Camo from a Druid or Displacement topping 140 ac in tank forms and 100% Immunity to all elements with gear I'm not too worried  Cata |
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Post by tomaan on Feb 2, 2012 14:04:47 GMT
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Post by uncanny on Feb 2, 2012 14:30:15 GMT
Hmm, wouldn't that have some influence on your instakill abilities for Risen and Drow forms...? While not great, I've found it's not reliant on rolls of 1 with maxed wisdom, more like 3-5 on average.
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Post by tomaan on Feb 2, 2012 14:39:07 GMT
Hmm, wouldn't that have some influence on your instakill abilities for Risen and Drow forms...? While not great, I've found it's not reliant on rolls of 1 with maxed wisdom, more like 3-5 on average. Yes, it would impact those DCs (about 52-54 atm), but it is a viable alternative on the build. I'm finding I'm able to kill quite a bit with Risen Lord in LLs and higher Hells' planes but Drow Mortal Strike has always been infrequent -- I think it may have to do with the crit range on the Drow weapon but can't be sure. Personally, I think the additional benefits of +13 Dodge AC from Polymorph Self: Fey (to offset Hells' penalty) and 26 points of regeneration from Polymorph Self: Troll are more valuable than maxed Con (and hp)...regardless of the DCs, but that's what makes HG so much fun -- you can build to taste. |
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Post by desocupado on Feb 6, 2012 15:04:58 GMT
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Post by uncanny on Feb 6, 2012 16:11:13 GMT
Hum interesting, but is Risen Lord and Undead worth it? I'm not confortable with undead and that low DC. The risen lord two handed weapon just means +15 physical damage which is nice, but costs too much. The maxxed Con idea is very good, let's try merging these two: Desco, I don't think you realize the difference in damage.. to give you an example, in hells against average mobs with Drow I get max of around 220hp on decent crit; with Risen I was getting 420-450 on average crit. Same weapon, same mob range. Crit chance was reasonably ok as long as I was keened. Even with my low wisdom (56 total at that time, no artifacts or +14 kit so easily could get more dc), I was down around 30 EP due to instakills. And EVERY hit you make initiates a save against death. The other benefits of risen are also really handy, the immunities specifically. Only thing I would gripe about is you do tend to get hit if you don't pay attention, and you do need to have harm pots handy; otherwise I was hitting 122ac without girding. That sounds suckish I know, but consider that in Phleg for example I had to heal(harm) up twice at 60% health in the boss fight using risen form, actively tanking the bosses specifically in this case. The immunities and buffs make you very hard to hurt, what with native critical hit immunity, breathing in ANY environment, immune to breach and mord; just add some good regen kit - I have 30 regen before casting troll poly which gives another 20 - and you really can stand and keep swinging. Second thing you get is Vampire GS, I typically popped this on when entering boss chambers. |
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Post by desocupado on Feb 6, 2012 17:59:59 GMT
Hum interesting, but is Risen Lord and Undead worth it? I'm not confortable with undead and that low DC. The risen lord two handed weapon just means +15 physical damage which is nice, but costs too much. The maxxed Con idea is very good, let's try merging these two: Deso, I don't think you realize the difference in damage.. to give you an example, in hells against average mobs with Drow I get max of around 220hp on decent crit; with Risen I was getting 420-450 on average crit. Same weapon, same mob range. Crit chance was reasonably ok as long as I was keened. Even with my low wisdom (56 total at that time, no artifacts or +14 kit so easily could get more dc), I was down around 30 EP due to instakills. And EVERY hit you make initiates a save against death. The other benefits of risen are also really handy, the immunities specifically. Only thing I would gripe about is you do tend to get hit if you don't pay attention, and you do need to have harm pots handy; otherwise I was hitting 122ac without girding. That sounds suckish I know, but consider that in Phleg for example I had to heal(harm) up twice at 60% health in the boss fight using risen form, actively tanking the bosses specifically in this case. The immunities and buffs make you very hard to hurt, what with native critical hit immunity, breathing in ANY environment, immune to breach and mord; just add some good regen kit - I have 30 regen before casting troll poly which gives another 20 - and you really can stand and keep swinging. Second thing you get is Vampire GS, I typically popped this on when entering boss chambers. Ok time for some math skill then: Scythe = Crit20 Mult 4x - with imp crit and keen = 180% average damage if you include critical hits. Morning Star (Drow) 19-20 2x = 145% damage including crits Whip (Lizard) 18-20 2x = 150% damage (also inflict vulnerabilitities) Yep Risen does better damage on crit-able foes, and pierces damage resistance much better and has two damage types, but I still think Lizard is enough for damage role because it increases other people's damage and has more ac and near uni stats. GS is invaluable, I've t myself on Serpent Coil to splitting the pulls. But losing 3 DC on all skills and and 42 CL hurts a lot. And yes, Risen lord > Drow by far when it come to instant kill. Drow has about 1/3 chance each hit to try mortal strike once per turn. That being said, i'll call what I posted above a different build. |
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Post by Lee on Feb 8, 2012 7:57:54 GMT
I dunno, Melee Humanoid Shifters can do some nifty damage in hells. I just got my Humanoid Shifter demi x 1 and did around 290k damage. Cata Is that a Shifter CC build? I would expect more damage out of that because of the shifter levels, whereas this version gives you better defense (from Ranger spells). I just did a Dis run entirely as a Risen Lord and led the party in damage -- but still didn't crack 100K. Getting OC/DC unarmed strike would probably change things quite a bit. OC/DC unarmed strike does not work like weapon focus unarmed strike. Only unarmed forms receive benefits from it. |
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Post by Shakua on Feb 8, 2012 8:14:25 GMT
Is that a Shifter CC build? I would expect more damage out of that because of the shifter levels, whereas this version gives you better defense (from Ranger spells). I just did a Dis run entirely as a Risen Lord and led the party in damage -- but still didn't crack 100K. Getting OC/DC unarmed strike would probably change things quite a bit. OC/DC unarmed strike does not work like weapon focus unarmed strike. Only unarmed forms receive benefits from it. Incorret. OC/Dc unarmed strike from an item does transfer to armed forms. Example: Lizard Folk. Starts with 15-20x2. After item. 14-20x3. |
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Post by desocupado on Feb 8, 2012 9:29:09 GMT
OC/DC unarmed strike does not work like weapon focus unarmed strike. Only unarmed forms receive benefits from it. Incorret. OC/Dc unarmed strike from an item does transfer to armed forms. Example: Lizard Folk. Starts with 15-20x2. After item. 14-20x3. If i'm not mistaken, you need LFF 3 to merge OC and DC on armed shapes. |
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Post by Lee on Feb 8, 2012 9:46:55 GMT
Incorret. OC/Dc unarmed strike from an item does transfer to armed forms. Example: Lizard Folk. Starts with 15-20x2. After item. 14-20x3. If i'm not mistaken, you need LFF 3 to merge OC and DC on armed shapes. Ah that makes sense, my shifter does not have LFF3 humanoid forms. |
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Post by tomaan on Jul 29, 2012 4:40:29 GMT
Reincarnated after x2 demi to make some adjustments. New build is on OP.
I updated screens, included some information about using Disarm with Lizardfolk form, added Bane of Enemies and feats through level 80.
Thanks to Lee for pointing out the !action dis opponent command for Lizardfolk. I was able to disarm Pit Fiends and Malebranches in Malad on a roll of 13 or 14 (my DC was 111)....should be able to get that down to 5 or 6 (DC 118-120) with curse (-??), legendary/paragon weapon feats (+5) and level 80 (+3?).
Damage output has improved quite a bit since I acquired an item with Devastating Critical (Unarmed Strike). HIghly recommended if you can find one. I'm also getting much more consistancy with insta kills from Risen Lord and Drow Warrior, making this build far more effective on the offensive end.
If you're looking for a shifter who can tank, this build is not for you, but if you want a tank who can do it all, this one is a keeper.
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Post by the1kobra on Jul 29, 2012 16:28:39 GMT
Say... I'm curious...
In the start of the build, you say that you don't neccecarily need to maximize your WIS to get good tankability with the forms, but it does help the ability DCs. I'm wondering... would it be worthwhile to go for 25 STR and get DV crit unarmed? If it transfers to your humanoid/undead forms, that could be a very powerful boon.
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Post by desocupado on Jul 29, 2012 16:34:01 GMT
If your Base Str or Dex is too high it overwrites (and decreases) shape stats.
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