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Post by Rain on Jan 23, 2011 20:37:27 GMT
Thx, fixed that. forgot to modify that after I dropped Greater Wisdom II for ESF:Evocation.
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Post by Torin on Jan 23, 2011 21:16:35 GMT
Torin probably meant the damage bonus from stormlord's storm of vengeance: Storm of Vengeance - This spell does CLd8 per round to all enemies in the area. - When cast as a Druid spell by a caster with at least 30 base Dexterity and whose base Dexterity is higher than their base Wisdom, casts Storm Avatar instead. Storm Avatar grants all the bonuses of the Divine Power spell, plus a physical damage bonus of 1 for every casterlevel above 40.That is what I had in mind. I'm right now in the test chamber to have a look at this build. Unfortunately, ingame the description of the spell does not mention the damage bonus (of +15 for this build with 55 CL) and its not on the dragon claws nor on a weapon wielded as druid. Also the elec damage does not apply since it is cast on a weapon. The only benefit I can see if being a Stormlord is the + 3 LBAB and the +2 attacks. |
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Post by maljin on Jan 24, 2011 6:58:59 GMT
Some more comments:
- Dragons don't merge weapon buffs (only humanoid and the tank forms of the epic shapes (leonal, risen lord and flesh golem)), that's why the extra elec damage from the stormlord doesn't show up. Good thing is you don't need to bug casters to buff all your weapons (or do it yourself); bad thing is that the extra elemental damage from dragons probably doesn't compare to what buffs could give you.
- The con penalty of elves is only present in unshifted form. As soon as you shift into a dragon you're not an elf anymore and therefor get an extra 2 con with the resulting hp....be aware though that when you shift back (or get killed) the extra con and the hp will disappear. Killing yourself by unshifting is unlikely though since you can't unshift if your hp is low.
- Did you also test the weapon spec feats? I thought all shifter forms without weapon were using unarmed attacks and therefor you'd need the respective weapon specialization (unarmed). It's true that anarch gets epic weapon spec: creature weapon but I'm quite sure it doesn't do anything at the moment. It might have been changed to affect weapons and/or unarmed attacks; a change I've not been aware though.
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Post by Rain on Jan 24, 2011 8:36:26 GMT
Some more comments: - Dragons don't merge weapon buffs (only humanoid and the tank forms of the epic shapes (leonal, risen lord and flesh golem)), that's why the extra elec damage from the stormlord doesn't show up. Good thing is you don't need to bug casters to buff all your weapons (or do it yourself); bad thing is that the extra elemental damage from dragons probably doesn't compare to what buffs could give you. - The con penalty of elves is only present in unshifted form. As soon as you shift into a dragon you're not an elf anymore and therefor get an extra 2 con with the resulting hp....be aware though that when you shift back (or get killed) the extra con and the hp will disappear. Killing yourself by unshifting is unlikely though since you can't unshift if your hp is low. - Did you also test the weapon spec feats? I thought all shifter forms without weapon were using unarmed attacks and therefor you'd need the respective weapon specialization (unarmed). It's true that anarch gets epic weapon spec: creature weapon but I'm quite sure it doesn't do anything at the moment. It might have been changed to affect weapons and/or unarmed attacks; a change I've not been aware though. Dragon does merge weapon buff, but only limited to 2 so far - GMW and Keen. The point that Elf isn't appealing to this build is the cost of extra skill points plus an extra LL feat I'm not really in need. LSA:Listen from Half-Elf on the other hand is a nice bonus. Epic Weap Specialization: Creature Weapon works pretty well on my Half-Kyton test toon. It's a bonus LL feat for druids. Haven't checked Anarch yet but since it's also Creature Weapon I'd think it should work as well. |
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Post by Rain on Jan 24, 2011 9:06:51 GMT
I just built an Elf Zenythri for a test and got the following results:
- Zenythri's bonus (Epic)Weap Specialization:Unarmed Strike DOESN'T work on Dragon shape. However when I pick (Epic) Weap Specialization: Creature Weapon as legendary feats, they work on Dragon. Zenythri's wep specialization feats do work pretty well on human form though.
- Weapon Specialization stacks with Epic Weapon Specialization, which resulted in my adjusting the build to pick both feats for max damage output.
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Post by MightyKhan on Jan 24, 2011 9:09:11 GMT
Fun concept/idea  |
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Post by Torin on Feb 1, 2011 19:08:31 GMT
After 2 days in the [TEST] chamber I understood one of the basics:
For all shifter documentation, Polymorph Level (PL) is defined as Druid level + Shifter level + Ranger level (including legendary levels if the character's control class is Druid, Shifter, or Ranger).
This build takes 4 Paladin levels and therefore the PL is -4 of optimum. I wonder how this build looks with 4 Ranger instead of Paladin; PL = 60?
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 1, 2011 19:11:46 GMT
Correct
Cata
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Post by maljin on Feb 2, 2011 18:49:31 GMT
Actually PL affects physical stats (str, dex, shield ac and EP) slightly but doesn't increase shifter abilities (CL or dc). I tested that with a druid 6 shifter 49 harper 5 in the test chamber: all forms (regardless if I took the leg form foci or not) had about 2-7 less str or dex and around -2 shield ac. It won't break the build, but Torin's right that your physical stats would be better with ranger instead of pally. Since dragons get huge physical stats though (68 str, 36 dex, 14 shield ac before items and demi bonuses for a shifter with PL 60) those few points lost won't hurt at all for what you get from pally (saves, disease and fear imm, divine shield/might).
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Post by Torin on Feb 2, 2011 19:11:38 GMT
Testing...
55 PL: 35 Druid, 4 Paladin, 1 Monk with LFF Dragon 3 gets STR 66, DEX 36, 12 Shield AC,
60 PL: 40 Druid with LFF Dragon 3 gets STR 68, DEX 36, 14 Shield AC
It seems to me that PL affects STR, DEX, AC.
Another test (on a Risen Lord tank I'm trying to create right now):
56 PL: 26 Druid, 4 Paladin, 10 Shifter with LFF Undead 3 gets 58 STR, 12 DEX, 14 Shield AC
60 PL: 26 Druid, 4 Ranger, 10 Shifter with LFF Undead 3 gets 65 STR, 12 DEX, 17 Shield AC (same for 30 druid, 10 shifter)
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Post by jonuhey on Feb 2, 2011 20:26:24 GMT
Not trying to do any harm, but I would avoid levelling one toon like this from scratch, unless you can deal with the nerf bat, cuz imo it will hit this sooner or later... especially if rain plays it and then show its logs lmao  |
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Post by Rain on Feb 3, 2011 13:41:12 GMT
Just did a test on 55Druid/4Ranger/1Monk. Compared to the paladin one, the ranger one has 1 more str and 1 more shield ac. the extra Str is useless though cuz it means I end up with 81Str which basically is the same as 80Str with paladin splash. The only benefit is 1 more ac, 1 more pre-epic feat and 4 more EP. Compared to paladin fear/disease imm and +8saves I'd still prefer paladin more.
Yes you can get 82Str and another shield ac if u donot splash monk lvl at all, but that then is not the build I want. Monk lvl is a must for 6 base attacks on main hand and another +1attack from flurry. Not to mention the high benefit of evasion with 70ish reflex.
Actually this build is indeed not recommended to build from the scratch cuz you become a stormlord only from lvl 60 on. Before that you're most likely playing either as a caster druid who's not that good as a real one or as a dragon spamming breath which is super boring. Personally I'm simply building a caster druid atm and reinc at lvl 60 for this build.
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Post by dragonledak on Apr 10, 2011 19:06:29 GMT
From my experiences of playing a dragon tank, similar build without paladin or strom quasi. Everyone got mad at me because of my enormous size. It was uber but I could roast hot dogs with peoples anger.  |
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Post by Rain on Apr 11, 2011 5:20:02 GMT
iirc, the more LFF you take, the larger your size will be, so yeah it actually will become EXTREMELY annoying for caster party members cuz their spells will always end up on you instead of enemies. I'd personally like to see dragon shifter able to switch their sizes like a RDD does.
Anyway, the main reason I haven't really played this toon is because I can't restore while shapechanged. It's OK for shifter who doesn't need to stay on frontline all the time, but for a tank that relies on this shape it's kinda harsh not able to restore at will in battle, except using those GR potions from stygia shop.
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Post by jonuhey on Apr 11, 2011 12:30:52 GMT
iirc, the more LFF you take, the larger your size will be, so yeah it actually will become EXTREMELY annoying for caster party members cuz their spells will always end up on you instead of enemies. I'd personally like to see dragon shifter able to switch their sizes like a RDD does. Anyway, the main reason I haven't really played this toon is because I can't restore while shapechanged. It's OK for shifter who doesn't need to stay on frontline all the time, but for a tank that relies on this shape it's kinda harsh not able to restore at will in battle, except using those GR potions from stygia shop. Thats not true... you can use lesser restoration pots (from druid grove) and it heals almost everything restoration does, but if you have something that lesser restoration doesnt heal (like blindness) you can just go and use GR pot or unshift and use pearl/grape, etc... |
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