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Post by uncanny on Feb 17, 2011 12:28:33 GMT
There are some things currently that I've heard newcomers griping about since I started playing a bit more frequently: 1) Ghost. For players with little to nothing, waiting 24 hours from the end of a run is not a day, it's typically two days. If it's a crucial piece of kit, they go play elsewhere while waiting. This gives another game 2 days to attract the same player. At the very least, allocating another item of equal value to be ghosted would be preferable. I'm not saying ghosting is bad but it seems to always target the one item you cannot afford to replace (at least for me it does); while I'm sure a day to someone with lots of spare kit is find and dandy it is a soul sucker to those without. And new players are those without! 2) Complexity of the game once you hit Legendary. I've been around new Legendary toons a lot thanks to rebuilding some of my toons, and a common expression is "wtf? this toon rocked at lvl30 now it sucks". I've used this opportunity to teach several new players about the benefits of reincarnation and the builds forum; but it would be useful to warn them early (say when logging in with a new toon) that the world gets hard to play without an optimized build. 3) Length of LL runs. A lot of casual people manage an hour or two. That means they can forget about most of the server being accessible to them. But while this is inaccessible, the area's they CAN get to are being modified upwards to compensate the stuff won in hard area's. And likewise, the hard area's get compensated upwards too. To the level that it becomes pointless to bother anymore. Again, this contributes to frustration, and when playing becomes frustrating you stop bothering.
Those arguing against "needed classes" being necessary spout about how it was easily doable - adding 2-5 hours on an already long run that only the most dedicated vet can find time for. Ask yourself, when did you last have an extra 2 hours for a run that already takes an hour to gather the party for (already 2-3 hours before that)? Sure you maybe found it fun, but if history teaches us anything, its that time is finite.
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Post by Shakua on Feb 17, 2011 23:39:13 GMT
1) I tend to disagree, replacement gear is easy to obtain. So what if you lost your bur ego boots for 24 hours. Your character was surviving on some other gear previously. 2) really? I dont think iv ever heard that comment. I would recomment that any player thats already in the legendary levels to get to 60 first. This makes it easier and clearer to understand if its the build that has a problem or its gear. 3) What? The average LL run or hell run (except nessus) is 1-2 hours. And what proof do you have of LL areas are being modified upwards (harder?) to compensate for gear in other areas?
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Post by BigStick on Feb 18, 2011 22:07:21 GMT
1) I tend to disagree, replacement gear is easy to obtain. So what if you lost your bur ego boots for 24 hours. Your character was surviving on some other gear previously. <snip>I don't think he meant a vet losing a BUR. I think the problem is the level 26 toon who only has 1 Brawny Baffle +6 and when it's gone has to switch back to the Mordant Wit +4 he was using before. That's what is tough for a new player to overcome.
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Post by Shakua on Feb 19, 2011 0:21:34 GMT
View is no different. Theres very little stuff i would consider crucial for character survival when under <40. The amount of set gear that can be found is quite abit. If they are in a party, the party is not going care you just lost x item and slightly less effective. Somebody should be pointing out where they can find an immediate replacement instead of just logging off.
Also if new players are really logging off when they echo an item at low levels, what do you think they will do once they got to LL or hells areas?
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Post by uncanny on Feb 19, 2011 12:03:07 GMT
View is no different. Theres very little stuff i would consider crucial for character survival when under <40. The amount of set gear that can be found is quite abit. If they are in a party, the party is not going care you just lost x item and slightly less effective. Somebody should be pointing out where they can find an immediate replacement instead of just logging off. Also if new players are really logging off when they echo an item at low levels, what do you think they will do once they got to LL or hells areas? PRECISELY. For you and me we don't really care - even I have a few duplicates of nearly any class or weapon needs for under lvl40. You're not thinking of the people that matter at this time, and as BigStick states it is the new player I am thinking of. You don't think it's important because to you, it's not a problem. Go to your bankchests, buy a replacement or heck play another toon if you don't have something else to use. We're bleeding players and in most cases, it's not even for a better game. Would you not agree then that what we are doing, is not sufficient to reduce the losses? Do we shrug our shoulders and mutter, "ah it's nothing, sure we're ok we got enough mates to keep ourselves happy", or do we find out why it's happening and try resolve it? I mean no offence Shakua; I want the same thing everyone else does at this point: a server where people can play and newcomers feel welcome enough to stay around awhile. I'm just trying to approach this from the view of a new player.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 19, 2011 14:27:21 GMT
Seriously??? Bleeding players??? I've had cuts n seen others with cuts, I've seen how fast blood escapes from a persons body when it has a means to do so. If we were bleeding players with the player base we have right now HG would be completely empty inside a week. I'd say it was more a slow trickle, very slow but still. In fact I'd even go as far as to say we aren't really loosing players, or at least not enough to be a worry, we just arent' keeping the new players we are getting. I mean there are a few vet players right now who are away for various reasons on breaks due to RL issues that can't be helped but the pattern I am seeing isn't one of bleeding players but more of one where new players turn up, say gimme gimme gimme, get told to take a flying leap and earn it, throw a tantrum and leave. Lets keep a little perspective here and not get too carried away ok Cata
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 18:44:55 GMT
Seriously??? Bleeding players??? I've had cuts n seen others with cuts, I've seen how fast blood escapes from a persons body when it has a means to do so. If we were bleeding players with the player base we have right now HG would be completely empty inside a week. I'd say it was more a slow trickle, very slow but still. In fact I'd even go as far as to say we aren't really loosing players, or at least not enough to be a worry, we just arent' keeping the new players we are getting. I mean there are a few vet players right now who are away for various reasons on breaks due to RL issues that can't be helped but the pattern I am seeing isn't one of bleeding players but more of one where new players turn up, say gimme gimme gimme, get told to take a flying leap and earn it, throw a tantrum and leave. Lets keep a little perspective here and not get too carried away ok Cata I would be curious to know the actual stats, as in total logged hours on a week by week basis for the past year. There are those who say "There is a slow rate of attrition to be expected from an aging game, but nothing to really worry about", and there are those that say, "It is a matter of fact that HG is losing players quickly and fairly soon there will only be a handful left". In either case, it is harder to get a LL run together. I don't entirely understand that unless it is the kind of thing where people tend to either do hells or level lowbies late at night and do all of the LL runs in the afternoon and morning. I remember not too long ago there would always be a couple hells runs going on, a couple LL runs going on, miscellaneous lowbies leveling and one lolth/immo going on, all at the same time. Between 2am and 8am est that would slack off a lot, but other wise there was always multiple things going on. Yes, in many cases, for lesser games. You know how old blackjack, battleship, trivial pursuit etc are....well personally what I played mostly during my last break was POGO of all things because you can instantly pick up a game, play it as much as you want or drop off whenever you feel like it. POGO is nothing but OLD OLD OLD games yet it has millions of players world wide. So personally I don't buy into the 'aging game' thing. I'm not drawing any conclusions, just saying it is not as easy to play HG as it once was and it doesn't have to be that way.
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Post by wollstonecraft on Feb 20, 2011 0:35:11 GMT
I agree with uncanny and add that certain guilded, 40+ demi vets who have been on HG for 4+ years simply do not remember what it's like to be new, unknown, and overwhelmed.
I further add that few Hells runs can be completed, from !runmsg to !partyroll pass, in under 2 hours.
And lastly, I agree that the age of the game might not be the issue as much as the age of its players.
-WSCraft
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Post by Shakua on Feb 20, 2011 3:44:17 GMT
View is no different. Theres very little stuff i would consider crucial for character survival when under <40. The amount of set gear that can be found is quite abit. If they are in a party, the party is not going care you just lost x item and slightly less effective. Somebody should be pointing out where they can find an immediate replacement instead of just logging off. Also if new players are really logging off when they echo an item at low levels, what do you think they will do once they got to LL or hells areas? PRECISELY. For you and me we don't really care - even I have a few duplicates of nearly any class or weapon needs for under lvl40. You're not thinking of the people that matter at this time, and as BigStick states it is the new player I am thinking of. You don't think it's important because to you, it's not a problem. Go to your bankchests, buy a replacement or heck play another toon if you don't have something else to use. We're bleeding players and in most cases, it's not even for a better game. Would you not agree then that what we are doing, is not sufficient to reduce the losses? Do we shrug our shoulders and mutter, "ah it's nothing, sure we're ok we got enough mates to keep ourselves happy", or do we find out why it's happening and try resolve it? I mean no offence Shakua; I want the same thing everyone else does at this point: a server where people can play and newcomers feel welcome enough to stay around awhile. I'm just trying to approach this from the view of a new player. I honestly cant believe you are saying this. I AM looking from a new players perspective. I dont care when i managed to lose one item for the day because playing > is a hell lot more fun then not playing. I am not assuming anyone has duplicates of ANYthing. So dont put me in the same category as "you and me" You didnt annalyze my final comment either. Im honestly in no mood to play with players who throw tantrums In LL or hells areas when they echo an item. This assumtion stems from that same player who logs off at lowbie levels with the same issue. That is not the kinda players you want to add to this community. If your after to make new players feel welcome, i suggest you teach them where to go to get gear instead of spouting off the echo system is driving players away.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 20, 2011 8:16:51 GMT
I agree with uncanny and add that certain guilded, 40+ demi vets who have been on HG for 4+ years simply do not remember what it's like to be new, unknown, and overwhelmed. I further add that few Hells runs can be completed, from !runmsg to !partyroll pass, in under 2 hours. And lastly, I agree that the age of the game might not be the issue as much as the age of its players. -WSCraft Well I don't have 40 or even 30+ Demi's, although I have been around 4+ years. However I don't see really what the age of HG's players has to do with anything. Since the day I started playing here we have had a variety of both young and old players here, that was one of the things about HG I liked. Age wasn't an issue and good playing ability and mutual respect mattered far more. If you want examples I can start spouting names of both our younger and older players on HG who are very valuable members of the community. HG has always been that way. As for being overwhelmed, well it's easy to be overwhelmed when you don't even bother looking around but get straight on !newbie channel to ask directions from everything including how to get to Town from Docks. I mean seriously, freaking explore a little like the rest of us did. It doesn't help new players either when 'vets' start going on and on about how needed BUR's are to new players on !newbie when they ask questions about builds and such. Hell you can go Demi with an Open Subrace with poor quality UR's, how many more times do people have to prove it before it sinks into your thick skulls that BUR's are nice to have but NOT NECESSARY IN THE FREAKING SLIGHTEST!!!!! Stop scaring the hell outa new players by drilling into them this LIE about BUR's and they may stay around longer once they realise that they don't have to have the all unimportant BUR race before they can get anywhere in game. Cata
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Post by Shakua on Feb 20, 2011 9:13:04 GMT
Hrm i had a different interruptation when he said age. Wollen might want clarify if he means the age of the person, or the age as in how long that person has been on the server.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 20, 2011 17:42:26 GMT
Age of players was what he said and that is how I interpreted it. If he'd meant length of time on the servers he should have said so Cata
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Post by eidos on Feb 20, 2011 19:06:58 GMT
I would be curious to know the actual stats, as in total logged hours on a week by week basis for the past year. There are those who say "There is a slow rate of attrition to be expected from an aging game, but nothing to really worry about", and there are those that say, "It is a matter of fact that HG is losing players quickly and fairly soon there will only be a handful left". Wish granted.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Feb 21, 2011 1:30:45 GMT
And yet right this second as I post there is 55 players on.........
It goes up and down, a graph like this can't really give an accurate showing
Cata
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Post by Shakua on Feb 21, 2011 2:38:39 GMT
The graph is accurate. Its not supposed to show you how many players are on at that very second. Note it only goes to jan 31 also.
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