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Post by Rain on Mar 15, 2011 11:44:07 GMT
Introduction: Offensive Turner with Max turning power/DC, Greater Ruin and full supportive Epic Spells.
What this build will have: -- Max turning power and DC -- 3 Essential Cleric Epic Spells: IOF, Girding and Miracle -- Greater Ruin x2 uses/rest -- Able to counterspell
Cons and possible solutions: -- No Destruction Domain but it's pretty much a waste of feat since you can't turn constructs at all with other turnable mob still alive. -- No LSF:Divination but as I said it in my other cleric build, LSF:Div simply doesn't really worth a feat in my opinion. It just in a way boosts your lvl 9 slots for Gate, that's it. For turner it's even more of a waste since turner can afford lots of lvl 9 slots for Gate.
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the Build:
60 Cleric Race/Subrace Human/Half-Celestial Alignment: Any (All stats bonus go to charisma)
"Half-Celestial" (secret Beyond UltraRare; adds wings) - FC: Cleric - WIS +6, CHA +4, free feat: Spell Focus Evocation, free feat: Greater Spell Focus Evocation, free feat: Epic Skill Focus Heal, sr 10 + 1/lvl, able to walk on quicksand, speaks Celestial
Starting stats: Str: 8 Dex: 9 Con: 8 Int: 8 Wis: 17 (23 after subby change) Cha: 18 (22 after subby change)
Cleric domain: Earth and Plant
Feats:
before Epic: Extra Turning Extended Spell Spell Focus: Enchantment Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment Spell Focus: Divination Greater Spell Focus: Divination Spell Penetration Greater Spell Penentration
Epic feats: Epic Spell Penetration Greater Charisma I - VI
Epic Cleric feats: Greater Wisdom I - II Planar Turning Epic Spell: Greater Ruin Epic Spell focus: Divination Epic Spell focus: Enchantment
Legendary feats: Domain Power: Evil Domain Power: Sun Legendary spell penetration Greater Charisma VII - X
Tome: Transmutation (read it at lvl 41+) Pandect: Epic energy resistance: Acid II (read it after minauros tag) Consumed Artifact: Charisma Artifact
Skill Points( at lvl 60): Concentration: 63 Spellcraft: 50 Tumble: 6
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All comment welcome.
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Post by simpetar on Mar 15, 2011 14:26:25 GMT
I am quite curious, what you consider as "a lot of damage". My ploder has couple more wisdom (artifact short from max) and ESF in conj as well, but I found his damage oriented performance rather weak, when focusing on cleric duties (ploding in my case, turning in yours) and dishing out offensive spells. Acid comes from Melf's, but it is a low level spell easily resisted by immunity to low level spells and the dice is not great either. It hits a single target, while other mobs are free to regenerate and laugh. And the slots it occupies are rather valuable for any cleric, even turner, whichever meta you use. Both spells that deal electric damage are hard to control loot breakers. Especially Chain Lightning actively seeks objects to jump at and when it lacks mobs, it targets loot spots. I was quite stressed when casting either, no matter how many mobs taking good elec were in a spawn...
simpetar
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Post by Rain on Mar 15, 2011 14:47:23 GMT
It all depends on how you play it. "lots of damage" means it definately has the potential to deal a satisfying amount of damage if I want it that way. My Wizard has lsf:conj and esf:Evo yet her damage still sucks cuz I mainly focused on insta spells; my Druid got #1damage in elysium once when I fully focused on damage spells and used draughts for CD in some circumstances(log should still be in mish's log page if you're curious).
As for this cleric, he's not supposed to spam damage spells on every single spawn like my damage sorcerer. As I mentioned above, the damage spells should be better saved for paragon mob, orthon/buer or boss-like spawn that your turning doesnot work effectively. If want to see him top damage in log on every single run it's not likely possible, but I'm sure when it comes to certain monsters that turning doesnot contribute much, this build should be doing quite well.
As to some specific spells, all I can say is, you need to know the mob's invulerability well, not just what they're most invulverable to, in most cases, their secondary vulerable damage type, so that when you choose which aoe damage type to use, u know a universal damage, instead of one type that only works on one. Thats exactly how to win damage as a aoe damage spammer. Chain lightning can be problematic, though I still spam it a lot on my sorc without problem. I'd think call lightning should be better though I'm not sure if this spell is still bugged atm.
Also personally Turner is a better choice to do damage spells than Ploder. except for some buff spells there arenot many else to memorize in the spellslots for turner, ploder on the other hand can be very busy doing plode, destruction, heartbane, u2d etc since you need to "read" mob to cast each spell. Turning is basically a brainless spam.
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Post by Enius the White on Mar 15, 2011 18:54:35 GMT
Nice. I like it. I think my threader may be going for a brisk walk into the light. Any thoughts on trading Maximize Spell for ESF Evocation? It would add the so-so Conversion epic (in a smaller party others may not have it, eye etc.), and better dc with Word of faith. The CLd6 sonic damage (Reflex save for half, boosted by Lore) might fit into the build's secondary focus nicely.
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Post by Rain on Mar 16, 2011 6:40:06 GMT
I'd never drop Maximize Spell personally. You need Max blade barrior and Max Call Lightning to occupy the relatively free slots on lvl 6 and 9. Otherwise you have to use lvl 8 for Empower BB which I'd never do since you might want as many Extended GR as you can on lvl 8 slots.
As for ESF:Evocation, I think it's definately a droppable feat for a turner. 2 more DC on a damage spell that can be spammed isnot that noticable considering this build isnot meant to top damage in log. Also the Evo Epic spell is a bit weak in my experience. So far the only monster I've ever used it on is non-paragon Orthon. However, if you don't really feel Max spell is necessary, I'd suggest picking LSF: Divination or Greater Ruin instead.
Domain: Destruction is completely a waste of feat since you can't turn constructs with any other turnable mob still alive.
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Post by Chaos Returned on Apr 15, 2011 19:53:36 GMT
I will be building this except for a few minor changes. I feel like div focus is so-so if you have the abo cleric torch so I am gonna be doing trans/conj foci then read spell pen book and get my final 2 cha for max destroy dc as I like having the highest dcs possible
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Post by Rain on Apr 16, 2011 5:19:55 GMT
Without any divination foci, even with abo torch it's just a Spell focus: div effect(GSF:Div effect if you use tia staff). This is totally killing a turner since you rely on soak instead of dodging attacks. Also a cleric without Miracle I would never invite such a role to any real endgame area.
Anyway, I simply stopped playing this turner after fully knowing both the explicit and implicit turner nerfs.
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Post by Rain on May 27, 2011 17:01:31 GMT
Completely revised this build to get Max DC, Greater Ruin x2 plus both IOF and Girding. Though I have to admit I'll personally use Rebuke a lot on this build due to a high DC. Rebuke can insta kill mob that you can never turn in hell/abyss such as Murkfiends, Dybbuk, Guecubu and Orthon.
I picked Earth domain instead of Fire in that a pure turner's stoneskin is actually quite useful with 20/+15 soak.
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Post by uncanny on Jun 16, 2011 1:37:54 GMT
Small, nitpicky thing: Cha: 18 (24 after subby change) Seems it should be 22?
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Post by TZ- on Jun 24, 2011 5:09:06 GMT
Building this as my main toon with a few minor changes, taking destruction domain instead of greater ruin for the few constructs I might be able to turn if the party lacks other construct killers.
How is this build? Anyone play this yet? Already rebuking at level 40 and like the fact I can do a little more than a turner without enchantment foci. Rebuke seems to do good in a lot of areas where wierd works, so killed a lot of zhentarim's and drow leveling up. Also using Word of Faith with the GSF: Evocation that Half-Celestial gets gets me a few damage and helps control those I cannot with turning.
So any comments you have on this build Rain? Any help would be appreciated!
TZ-
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Post by TZ- on Jun 24, 2011 5:10:26 GMT
Also, removed Spellcraft for 30 tumble ranks and tossing the leftovers into Craft Armor for a possible 1 ac if I can get a decent song a few gear pieces with craft armor.
TZ-
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Post by dex on Jun 24, 2011 8:28:38 GMT
spellcraft points give you second use of greater ruin, which is a lot better than a few points of AC, gate provides sufficient defense for cleric, you just need to remember to recast it every now and then
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Post by anar12 on Jun 24, 2011 11:45:28 GMT
Actually getting some AC makes sense. I have a pure cleric that uses heavy armour and asmo shield (119 AC) and that puts my dodge rate at around 50-60% and that counts for something. So I wouldn't shrug off the idea of increasing your AC even if it's gonna be low close to 120 (you have girding, but lower dex).
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Post by Rain on Jun 25, 2011 16:04:45 GMT
As I mentioned there're quite some mob that can't be turned yet can be insta'ed by rebuke. You'll most likely using lvl 9 slots for extended rebuke so you have to target wisely.
Problem for turner to compete AC with ploder is that they have really low dex and skill points at your disposal. Ruin is nice for turner in that there're stuff you can't turn at all yet can ruin on(such as Rak, Orthon). As for gearing it's most likely gonna be what anar's cleric is, to get as high physical imm as possible, and swap for robe on layers with massive slagging. AC doesn't really matter that much for turner. As long as you can land turnings on the mob, they'll get immobilized anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 21:51:25 GMT
I use the Aboleth 127 parry plate armor for psuedo critical immunity on my turner and an Aboleth torch to up gate soak to ridiculous levels on my pure turner. Seems to work okay.
Usually KD effects or other save related problems are what get me killed and most of the time that's bad timing or positioning on my part.
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