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Post by TZ- on Jul 16, 2011 15:05:09 GMT
This toon is meant to dish out a substantial amount of damage, defenses aren't that great as I couldn't fit in LSA: Tumble to get what I wanted out of the build but I got 6 tumble ac from cross class dumping! Would like some input on final AB/AC before I actually build this toon! @-----------------------------------@Half-Elf/Half-Guardinal Strength: 10 Dexterity: 12 Constitution: 10 Wisdom: 12 Intelligence: 12 Charisma: 18 @-----------------------------------@@-----------------------------------@Level Progression:5 Paladin/4 HS/10 CoT/1 HS/20 CoT @-----------------------------------@@-----------------------------------@Stat Distribution:8 Charisma/12 Strength @-----------------------------------@@-----------------------------------@Skill Distribution:Max Discipline Max Listen 30 Tumble 4 Search 6 Lore 8 Persuade Rest to Craft Armor @-----------------------------------@@-----------------------------------@Feats:01: Alertness 03: Iron Will 06: Exotic Weapon Proficiency, FE: Outsiders 09: Weapon Focus: Two Bladed Sword 11: Ambidexterity 12: Two Weapon Fighting 13: Improved Two Weapon Fighting 15: Power Attack, Cleave 17: Improved Critical: Two Bladed Sword 18: Extra Smiting 19: Great Cleave 20: FE: Abberations 21: Great Smiting I 24: Great Smiting II, III 27: Great Smiting IV 28: Great Smiting V 30: Great Smiting VI 32: Great Smiting VII 33: Great Smiting VIII 36: Great Smiting IX, X 39: Epic Prowess 40: Epic Weapon Focus: Two Bladed Sword 42: Legendary Skill Affinity: Listen 45: Legendary Weapon Focus: Two Bladed Sword 48: Armor Skin 51: Overwhelming Critical: Two Bladed Sword 54: Devastating Critical: Two Bladed Sword 57: Great Charisma I 60: Great Charisma II @-----------------------------------@@-----------------------------------@Final Stats at 60: Strength: 40 (54 with +14s) Dexterity: 16 (30 with +14s) Constitution: 8 (24 with +14s)(arti) Wisdom: 12 (26 with +14s) Intelligence: 14 (28 with +14s) Charisma: 30 (44 with +14s) @-----------------------------------@I just need calculations for final ac and ab if anyone would be so kind as to do so TZ-
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Post by arek on Jul 16, 2011 17:59:08 GMT
AB: 18(bab)+22(str)+10(epic)+15(legendary)+7(feats)+20(bonus)-2(dual-wield)=90 AC (medium): 10(base)+13(dex+base armor ac)+18(armor bonus)+17(deflection)+17(natural)+20(dodge)+6(tumble)+3(maxed CA)+2(armor skin)=106
I'd also recommend Heavy armor instead of Medium. CoTs don't survive on AC, but rather on Soak.
My armor calculation might be a bit off, but I doubt it. Were I you, I'd seriously consider dropping those HS levels for Fighter levels for more feats at the cost of one (yes, one, not two) attack. This would give you +2 AB right there. Additionally, I'd drop Armor Skin for GWF (don't do that, get GWF with fighter levels), and see what I could shuffle around to get more STR. Starting with Pharlan might be a better idea than Half-G, if you have Pharlan. This would give you 2x Great STR, and allow you to start with 2 less CHA (put that into STR, DEX, and INT).
Even if you stick with Half-G, see if you can't drop 2 CHA at creation and use the points to get 4 STR and 2 INT, then switch things around and take 2 more CHA while leveling (you may need to move EWF and EP up to early Epic Levels or into LLs and/or take a GCHA feat at 21) which would get you +1 AB and allow you to take Craft Weapon for 2-3 more AB. Add GWF for 1 more AB, and you'll push your max AB to 94 (96 if you take ftr instead of HS), which will improve your damage output.
Hope this helps! :-)
--Arek
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Post by Vichya on Jul 16, 2011 18:20:55 GMT
I would not take smites on a CoT. I think the heavy investment in charisma is more suited towards paladins, who can make better use of it. Apart from very high saves from paladin splash instead of just high saves this only gives you longer duration for Divine Wrath and a bit more physical damage. A Paladin would gain shield ac and divine immunity from Divine Shield, physical and positive immunity from Aura of Glory and also gets +4 charisma in legendary level which a CoT doesn't.
That being said you also take Craft Armor skill. Given your low AB a much better choice would be Craft Weapon. You also want 20-30 ranks in Concentration to avoid some nasty effects.
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Post by KnightErrant on Jul 16, 2011 18:37:34 GMT
I think you might be better off going something like 7 ftr 3 pally 30 CoT. CoT save bonus's are in the +20 cap, paladins are not. Pally splash gets also gets you Fear and Disease immunity with those insane saves. Also if you take Weapon Specialization on a fighter level it opens up Epic Weapon Specialization in LL as a CoT feat. I'd even consider dumping Armor Skin as the difference between 104 AC and 106 won't really make much of a difference...everything is gonna hit you anyway. My CoT has 100 AC, have seen them with as low as 96 AC iirc...the idea is to wear enough immunity gear to soak or shrug off all the hits you take not make them miss you.
KE.
FYI: x1 Mala thru Nessus will make you cry.... -65% hell pens in Nessus with a AC that low is quite brutal...
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Post by arek on Jul 16, 2011 19:01:16 GMT
I'm actually kinda in agreement with Vichya here. Dump G-Smites for G-Str feats, dump CHA for the most part (keep some for your saves), and put any extra feats you get to better use (such as WS/EWS). Divine Wrath damge doesn't depend on CHA, and Divine Might doesn't stack with it, so don't take any unnecessary CHA. Get STR instead.
Perhaps it's time for me to re-think my own CoT. :-)
--Arek
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Post by TZ- on Jul 16, 2011 19:58:05 GMT
I don't get it, G Smite feats give you strength in LL levels so it's the equivalent of taking strength feats + the added bonus of insane damage on smites. Also, will probably look for pharlan before I start this build, or Hound Archon.
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Post by Vichya on Jul 16, 2011 20:06:27 GMT
Yes, but you need 25 charisma pretty early in epic levels for that, and that doesn't offer much to a CoT in my opinion.
Just take a look at what it cost you to get it: you started with only 10 strength.
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Post by arek on Jul 16, 2011 21:16:08 GMT
TZ, if you start your CoT with the STR and CHA reversed (18 STR, 10 CHA) you get +8 STR (+4 AB) for little more than a few saves. Just dumping the GSmite feats for GStr feats nets you 1 free feat, and dropping Armor Skin nets you another, letting you take Weapon Specialization and Epic Weapon Specialization (assuming you go ftr instead of hs). Drop all that +CHA in pre-epic levels, and you gain several more AB points. With fighter levels, it shouldn't be hard for you to hit 100 AB, which will let you hit very regularly in all areas, or you could go with your current plan of taking HS levels and get that extra attack while still keeping a reasonable AB. Or you could even take advantage of the benefits of Half-G and pick up some extra DEX (aim for 23 total) and get Power/Superior critical (go with ftr for this, tho, you'll want the feats). If you go for PC/SC, tho, go double-scimitar instead of two-bladed sword. You'll need the crit range to make SC worth the AB hit.
Hope this helps. :-)
--Arek
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Post by Yojimbo on Jul 18, 2011 13:32:20 GMT
I would drop starting CHA to 16, 18 with HG sub, dump first 7 points into CHA for 25 and bump starting CON up to 14 with all the CoT feats it should be easy enough to still pick up all your Greater Smite feats before LLs. I also suggest dropping HS it doesn't provide enough benefit to a CoT since that extra attacks don't stack. To me you either want to be dual wielding Monk weps and have a Monk splash or using a double wep and use Fighter splash. I originally didn't notice the 10 CON wow yeah that needs to be higher you will get eaten alive by more than just damage with CON that low.
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Post by tomaan on Jul 18, 2011 22:53:46 GMT
I don't get it, G Smite feats give you strength in LL levels so it's the equivalent of taking strength feats + the added bonus of insane damage on smites. Also, will probably look for pharlan before I start this build, or Hound Archon. I think it's a good idea on a COT now that Divine Wrath damage is based on Cha modifier (used to be based on COT level). They also reduce your Nimbus recharge time, which can very useful when used properly. I'd go Hound Archon if you have it. The ability bonuses are ideal for COT and you get power attack and 1 Gr Smite feat. I would also follow the others' advice on fighter levels - you only lose one attack and you free up four ability points (from Wis) that you can put into Con.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2011 21:27:01 GMT
I did a very similar build (before reading this) and was quite pleased with the results. You can achieve good damage and good defense (at the least). My lvl 60 str (before any demi) was 60, final cha was 40. For damage that's 25 (from str) and 22 from cha (time and a half cha mod) for 47 to start. 12 con to start. I fit in oc/dc and all weapon foci up to leg. The difference is, I used a shield. I think any toon relies on layers of defense rather than just a single type. Have to bypass ac to get to conceal, have to bypass conceal to get to soak/resist, have to bypass resist to get to imm, and then finally the toon takes damage.
At double demi, this kind of toon will just be silly. The HS does only give 1 extra attack, but the imms on the moliated boots and ability to craft greater restoration pots are pretty big.
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