35pal/5hs build?

[Xalo]

Now, I know this will be a little squishy but I just want a little input on it, this looks like it will be a nice damage tank and be able to make it in the hells.

Half-Elf/Nereidkin
STR:14
DEX:8
CON:10
WIS:14
INT:14
CHA:16

7cha, 13str

31pal, 1hs, 1pal, 2hs, 1pal, 2hs, 2pal

Max listen, disc, 60 tumble, 55 craft armor, 4 search, 6 lore, 8 persuade

01: Blooded
03: WF Greatsword
06: Alertness
09: Imp Crit Greatsword
12: Power Attack
15: Divine Might
18: Divine Shield
21: Great Cha 1
23: EWF
24: Iron Will
26: Great Smite 1
27: Great Smite 2
29: Great Smite 3
30: Great Smite 4
32: Great Cha 2
33: Great Smite 5, 6
36: Great Smite 7
38: Great Cha 3
39: Great Smite 8
40: Armor Skin


FREE +1 STR/CHA at 45/50/55/60
42: LSA Tumble
45: LSA Listen
48: LWF
51: Epic Prowess
54: Blind Fight OR ESF Listen
57: Great Str 1
60: Great Str 2

What do you think? 95AB with +14s. Whats the AC at double demi with asmodeus artifact and strongheart and +10 shield AC from divine shield?

Xalo

[KnightErrant]

You'll need some good gear to use Divine Shield...every time a kickback mob hits it and takes damage you take kickback from them...so every time something like a Hamatula hits your shield you'll take 100 magic on top of whatever damage it normally does, Pit Fiend will tag you for a extra 150 Acid 50 magic etc....can get ugly fast if you can't cover it all.

KE.

[Yojimbo]

At 0x Demi with out artifacts and with +12 items my CHA Paladin which get around +11 Shield AC using a BUR sub only manages about 122 AC. You are about 3 off from mine in the Shield AC from what I can tell Asmo artis average +3 AC over normal BUR and Strong heart is another +3 so that would but you roughly 125 AC 2x Demi w/ Asmo Artis and Strongheart. That won't help you out a lot you will need the immunities KE mentions to stay alive. I would not go with 10 CON it will hurt you to have such a low CON score. By my math you have only 40 base STR which I don't think would get you to 95 AB unless you are including 2x Demi. My CHA Paladin will have 42 base CHA and with +12 gear is only capable of a top AB of 94.

[redbeard]

I keep counting an odd ending strength. Oh. Nereidkin has -1 strength, +2 Cha, -2 Int.

You could get the same strength by taking two more great smites before Immo and then taking two of the charisma in place of the great strengths at 57 and 60. This will give you 40 seconds faster recharge time on the great smite. Or are you limited by Harper Scout bonus feats? You should be able to get around the HS bonus feats if you start taking HS earlier.

[Yojimbo]

I believe that he is limited by feats and class taken on those levels. I did mean to ask in my earlier post what the purpose was in staggering the levels of HS and Pally? Why not take all 5 HS levels at once or split into HS 1-4 with HS 5 taken at L40 if you need to do any skill dumping?

[magecat]

If you are going to invest in Greater Smiting, I would look for ways to shift your feats around to get Great Smite 10 before L40. This will give a permanent +10 Str bonus when you go for L41.

Given that you added 2 Great Str, this seems like a no brainer.

[chirality]

The problem is that it's tough to squeeze in all 10 Great Smites and enough Charisma to have them by 40 (and all the rest of the stuff that is already difficult to fit in with feat-starved paladins) with an open subbie.

I've spent a lot of time in the past approaching from various angles but no matter what you do, it really is just a hassle to try getting in everything you want/"need" with an open sub smiter.

[Yojimbo]

Drop Divine Might for Iron Will and change to 20 Paladin 4 Harper Scout 15 Paladin 1 Harper Scout would let you use the Harper Scount feat at 21 to take your Great CHA you have there anyways plus a normal feat EWF or Armor Skin. Drop one of the other 2 Great CHA feat for a Great Smite and drop either EWF or Armor Skin for the 2nd Great Smite. You can then pick up Divine Might and EWF/Armor in LLs in place of the 2 Great Strength feats. I know I'm a bit off on feats you should have 1 more open somewhere in Epics unless you still take all 3 Great CHA though I would hold off on the last Great CHA to be the last feat in LL as it provides the least amount of benefits.

[redbeard]

Hmmm. Forgot that the HS levels would push the Pally levels down.

It looks like Yojimbo has a good plan to get the extra 2 smites. Getting the pre-req for GS at 24 means that the first time you can use a pally bonus feat to get the smite is 26. That means the pally bonus at 23 can't be a smite. Adding two HS at 21 and 22 pushes that pally bonus to 25 and you can start smiting and still have 5 pally bonus and 5 regular feats to pick up the 10 great smites.

Are you going to need Iron Will with 12 bonus from Charisma?

[Yojimbo]

Iron Will is a pre-req for HS I nearly forgot that and I nearly forgot that if you do HS for 21-24 you will not be able to take your first Great Smite on 24, you won't be able to on 21 any way you slice it, so it is best to do the level spread as Pally 1-20 >> HS 21-23 >> Pally 24-37 >> HS 38 >> Pally 39 >> HS 40 unless no skill dump is needed then could change it up to be Pally 1-20 >> HS 21-23 >> Pally 24-36 >> HS 37-38 >> Pally 39-40.

[Xalo]

Good point on the smite feats, this is how I am doing it now:

Everything the same besides feats and level progression:

20pal/3hs/14pal/1hs/1pal/1hs

Pre-Epic
Blooded
WF Greatsword
Alertness
Power Attack
Divine Might
Divine Shield
Iron Will

Epic
Great Charisma 1, 2
Great Smite 1
Great Smite 2
Great Smite 3
Great Smite 4
Great Smite 5
Great Smite 6
Great Smite 7
Great Smite 8
Great Smite 9
Great Smite 10, Armor Skin
Great Charisma 3

Legendary
LSA Tumble
LSA Listen
Epic Weapon Focus
Legendary Weapon Focus
Improved Critical
Epic Prowess
Epic Skill Focus: Listen OR Blindfight



What should i pick for my last feat? ESF or Blind Fight?

Xalo

[magecat]

If you can do a skill dump, Listen over 60 is good. Otherwise go for Blindfight.

[chirality]

Well he's taking LSA: Listen anyway so I would hope he is planning on dumping in LLs.

magecat has a good point though; if you weren't previously aware, Blind Fight and Listen don't stack. Only the highest value works; Blind Fight is equivalent to 60 Listen. I see that you took the advice of taking LSA: Listen, but unless you have the skill points to bring Listen much past 60 in LLs, you're better off just taking Blind Fight. This would free up one feat (from LSA:Listen) and then combined with the open Blind Fight/ESF: Listen slot, you'd have two "extra" feats.

If this is the case it looks like your best options may be two more Great <Attribute> feats.

That said, if you *are* able to get high Listen (if not max it), then LSA: Listen + ESF: Listen would serve you well. Although there are other options for ESF: Listen, without guaranteed gear to rely upon those points could be very useful to you. After all, it may not be as flashy or impressive as some higher-tier builds but you'd at least be hitting more often than many tanks (those who can only afford BF for example).

[Yojimbo]

If he drops LSA Listen he only frees up 1 feat as he will still need to take Blindfight because having neither will make him useless but I think he has an odd score for CHA so he could take 1 more Great CHA and even it out.

[chirality]

;D

Good point...only one free feat. Being stupid...oops

And yeah with odd Cha looks like Great Cha is the best bet.