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Post by murdrax on Jun 29, 2007 0:47:39 GMT
yeah funky the new ruleset and the degrade buffs are gonna cost you alot of players if not already!!
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Post by pktrony on Jun 29, 2007 1:00:19 GMT
Hey people! I'm just here to say hahaha . Are you kidding right? About the update, we got wiped today in disparter with a simple party Demi-Gods and bard with epic immu critical, imune kd etc. reminds me my last post about Range weapons and your Criticals. all said that was bs and etc. that the output dmg was called Flurry haha Well, actually we got a party vet ppls, some Demi-Gods and tried take a look in the updates in hells. well, a simple spawn and boom 5 deads getting criticals bwt 300-800 (hamas) machine hitted on a ppl 1057 dmg hahah . NAzgus almost wiped the party with your beatifulls 400 on critical x 11 or 12 attacks per round (without count the attacks oportuniy for use heals or cast spells haha . like zhorsemen said : it's just the start but seems like a HEY ! Stop try get Demi-God. it's just for us. ACtually only 3 partys did it. DM-TEAM, Raj group and horsemen group I think and that's it. will stay like that forever . All items now are useless because it was based in the balance of the out-put of the natural dmg... it's funny because I spoke about it in my last topic :: no increase the natural dmg and put some critical on range weapons, that also could work with mobs yes. Just chatting but at least if you have a Asmodeus artefact with immu criticals or a PM, or bur subby Juggernaut you can survive but not your party. Doing a nice strategy in battle and with a DEMI-GOD bard with all epic spells (immune criticals also) we got easyly wiped. Really was funny see some just logged saying F^*%$#%^#^ etc. I'm saying about ppls with BURS subbys and BURS items, some with Artefacts from Asmodeus think about A normal party trying get your first tia or disparter hahaha well, just a opinion but I'll stay on and wait any party call a maladomini or malboge. any party* Demis, doubles or normals etc. just for launch it's what all are saying today got a invite from a party doing Dustbone, well, they got wiped with 10 in party and some levels 60 on haha I tried help with my wizard full customized levle 60 and needed log a Demi God for die alot times there too and help them with the tag. or they would need 3 or 4 hours to finish the quest spawning 1 mob per time. it's not a hardcore mode, it's unbalanced because the server was done to work with natural output, not with 5 normal spawns doing 500 on critical in a full equipe toon. all balance with items are useless now. Just my opinon seems same opinion (in game not here) of more 1000.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 29, 2007 1:14:39 GMT
yeah funky the new ruleset and the degrade buffs are gonna cost you alot of players if not already!! Probably the best way to insure I'll ignore whatever you have to say is to threaten to leave the server, with talking about all the people that are going to leave a close second. If you want to leave, just go already, and spare me the drama. Anyone prepared to do that over one update ranks slightly lower than chimp in my book. We can't make all changes come pre-balanced because we need playtest to see where things lie first. If that's just too much to bear for you, by all means, leave. Accourse, if you have spent any amount of time building your characters, and have at least half a functioning brain, you are likely to exercise a little patience. Whatever. Funky
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Jun 29, 2007 1:53:47 GMT
yeah funky the new ruleset and the degrade buffs are gonna cost you alot of players if not already!! Funky's quite right. Calm. Patience. This MASSIVE change is only a couple of days old. And, really, how will anyone KNOW what the effects are until people group up, gear up, and go TRY them? Murdrax, let me tell you - the first ever Black Pyramid run? 8-10 people wiped before even getting off the entry pad. Why? Because one of the creatures had a bug. Even the people who designed the place didn't KNOW that, and they had to LEARN that - the hard way. First Cania run ever? Another bug in the monsters that made them automatically dominate anyone they hit with no hope of save. Wiped that party too. When you make a server wide change, you're going to need to have people go play EVERY ZONE and EVERY RUN before you will even know what the problems and issues ARE, let alone be able to address them. I mean, I certainly never would've thought to check if Drider Chieftains can dev crit. And you know what? They can. With a 69 DC. Problem identified. Now it will be fixed. So...reeellaaaaax. Be part of the solution, and help sort things out. Instead of being part of the problem...and whining, throwing a temper tantrum, and making threats.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 29, 2007 1:59:34 GMT
You forgot the stygia wipe on the first spawn from the massive area kickback. I was bawling with laughter. ;D Funky
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Post by bhao on Jun 29, 2007 2:34:22 GMT
i think what's got everybody so upset is, that as far as we understood it, most areas already were perfectly fine and this just completely threw it out of whack. this is different from a new area. people have been there, and have come to expect certain things and a lot of those things no longer hold true. from what i can tell in game, there is a lot of frustration going on with the people, that don't already have it all and were thinking they were making good progress, only to be apparently thrown back into the stone age by this. that this apparently wasn't the intention behind the whole thing, isn't really helping. even posts with just snide remarks contribute to the larger picture here, which is, was it really necessary to so completely turn things upside down and upset everything and everyone just ... ...to force people to level in areas closer to those designed for their intended level, giving more areas some use again, and providing a more graduated leveling experience. i'm not sure there. oh, and that the stupid gmw thing (which is stupid btw) happened at the same time, did not help things at all.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 29, 2007 2:43:54 GMT
No, I suspect what upsets them is seeing their characters less powerful overall. Again, see my remarks about the buildup of character power with custom edits over time. Sometimes the pendulum has to swing the other way, or it just turns into an uber, boring, levelfest. In any event, asking rhetorical questions to which our answers clearly differ does nothing to advance the discussion. If you want to help, post some statistics in the Drunken Monk thread. Otherwise you might as well be talking to a wall, for all the effect it'll have. Funky
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Post by bhao on Jun 29, 2007 2:47:39 GMT
No, I suspect what upsets them is seeing their characters less powerful overall. hehe. i thought that's what i said i have posted all the data i have there. i will try to gather some more then.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Jun 29, 2007 4:17:18 GMT
You forgot the stygia wipe on the first spawn from the massive area kickback. I was bawling with laughter. ;D Funky Lol...I think I missed that one. I was on the first *successful* run with Cath as our only STR tank...dear fellow did the entire run in Dragon form. I did hear about it though. A wonderful addition to the Hall of Whoops!
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Post by murdrax on Jun 29, 2007 12:24:45 GMT
sorry funky just frustrated got sdsdo used to buffs lasting until wore off naturally plus the fact that i did a beholder run and those freak beholders managing to wipe practially level 60's really irrtated me then reading the uspet comments on players here thought i was stating facts didnt mean to upset you instead of degrading buffs if it bothers you so much why not rig to to desuade perm buffs or high end buffs from upper charcters rig it so high end can buffs lower at all. and logging only causes the buffs to instantly cancel. that woukld stop the perm buffers right there!!
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Post by chainlink on Jun 29, 2007 12:35:34 GMT
I have seen plenty of comments before in the vein of "If you fixed XXXX bug/exploit why didn't you fix the GMW perming thing?" And guess what they fixed it so I'd quit moaning or be a lot more careful about focussing on other stuff you don't like if you feel hard done by. I do think the latest tweak to GMW may remove a lot of the pain though.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Jun 29, 2007 14:16:23 GMT
Indeed. As I've said over and over again - remain calm.
The DM staff does a wonderful job of fixing problems as they come up. However, two things.
1) They need TIME to fix something. New code doesn't materialize by magic. They need to identify the problem, figure out a solution, impliment it, and then test it, and then make sure that the fix doesn't mess with something else. At least thats my impression of the process from observations, since I don't do it myself. Which brings us to #2.
2) They need us to PLAY with the changes, to see what goes wrong, and give detailed accounts of what happened. To put it another way, they can only fix problems they know about, and a good chunk of the reporting's got to come from the playerbase.
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Post by phalthallus on Jun 29, 2007 15:04:28 GMT
No, I suspect what upsets them is seeing their characters less powerful overall. Again, see my remarks about the buildup of character power with custom edits over time. Sometimes the pendulum has to swing the other way, or it just turns into an uber, boring, levelfest. In any event, asking rhetorical questions to which our answers clearly differ does nothing to advance the discussion. If you want to help, post some statistics in the Drunken Monk thread. Otherwise you might as well be talking to a wall, for all the effect it'll have. Funky The problem I have with this is just the variety in people's play styles, amount of time to devote to playing, NWN intelligence in general, and a variety of other things. *WHO* considered HG an uber, boring, levelfest? Certainly not the groups I run with, many of whom still have aspirations of just getting to the hells. Yet I do know some people who do see it this way. And I think that's where the disconnect is - there is too broad of a range of people playing now, from casual players who are only on 2-3 hours one or two times a week, compared to those who play 8+ hours a day, 4-5 days a week. And the real problem is, how do you make it work for everyone? I don't know that you can, which isn't what I want to be saying at all. In a perfect world there are enough areas to keep everyone happy - but that just isn't likely. We already have that, to some extent, with the Hells. But even those some people consider too easy. I don't know what the answer is, unfortunately. I know that there are a myriad reasons that this change was implemented, and I wish I could suggest more ways to help solve some of them. But if I did, I'd just get bashed by one side of the fence or the other.
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Post by darkfyre on Jun 30, 2007 11:56:06 GMT
Well here is some data from 5 DB runs consisted of FA Druid, Rak Sorc, BR Str Tank, Pixie Rogue, Yukio AA
DB Run before: ~45 mins with 5 lvl 60's 1-2 deaths on the way. 3 ring rests each for the casters as they tend ot go up at same time always. DB Run After: ~55mins with 5 people level 60 3-5 deaths (mostly dex rogue pulling) on the way and whenever DB went on a non tank type he critted them down in very very fast order; over 300+ /crit in quick succesion. was fun. 4 ring rests for the casters.
Data from 2 Thid run included group of 6 lvl 60 FA Cleric, FA Druid, BR Str Tank, Pixie Rogue, Pixie PM, Yukio AA.
Thid Run Before: ~65mins with above gorup 1-2 deaths from ceremancers. 3-4 rign rests for hte casters Thid Run After: ~75mins 5-7 deaths (mostly Rogue pulling) didnt see any issue sometimes cirts happened 300+ but not a real issue. 4-5 rimg rests for the casters.
Data from several desert runs Group Druid, Str Tank, Sorc, Rogue, AA all levle 60.
Desert Before Change: ~40mins 1-2 deaths (usually sorc or AA getting imploded on a 1) Desert after change: ~45mins 3-4 deaths increasae from sroc eating 2 crits from dev. No real issues.
Data from several pyramid runs; group consisted of Str Tank, Druid, Sroc, Rogue, AA all level 60
Pyramid before the change ~55mins 4-8 deaths (mostly from the damn bettles, a 1 is a 1). 3-4 ring rests for the casters Pyramid after the Change: 90mins 12-20 deaths mostly from crits on soul devourers). 5-6 ring rests on casters
Data from several Sissy runs group included Rogue, Str Tank, Druid, Sorc, PM, AA
Before Change ~65mins 1-2 deaths from implosions on sorc. 3-4 chamber rests and 1 ring rest after bridge for sissy herself. After Change wil have tp get his information.
THe GMW issue isn't that painful as the sorc or cleric just recasts after every rest ont he 2 melee... did notice that keen after every rest does disappear while the FW and GMW will still be on the weapon.
I can see where it has increased the difficulty for those that are not in full UR gear, but for our group it just made iit 1 or 2 more rests and made everyeone stay more focused . Still is about team play and party working well together but more so now...
'Darkfyre
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Post by nicnik on Jun 30, 2007 15:32:11 GMT
Less powerful is fine by me. Problem arises when not every playr in your team is the "ideal" player. Some players aren't nicely equiped, some aren't so smart. I still think if you want players to look less powerful don't do a big global change; but rather add in much more difficult slowly and gradually. So at least it's all under "control". A simple way would be to have hardcore off, and add in some extra mobs into the random spawn system (especially in hell), that do some serious scriptted criticals with massive ab. Coz tbh, I found hell a litle too easy prehardcore (the first few layers anyway), in a decent non nub team. But now it's just too imbalanced and looks allot of work to be done. But sure I like hardcore mode if it wasn't so hardcore
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