Shaolin Thugbear (60 Monk)

[bazukar]

This build is designed for the melee aspiring to epic heights on an open sub budget. It has solid defense and offense pre demi and is very flexible in the gear department. This is an excellent first time character for the mod due to its sturdiness and flexibility. With this build you have no need to cover many immunities that other classes would need to worry about. This allows you more choice in what you wear and allows you to focus on other immunities. It will also do well against most stat checks you will encounter in your trip to demihood. But more on that later.

Note: This build requires HG Enhanced in order for certian feats to show in the feat list.

ON TO THE BUILD!

Shaolin Thugbear

Race- Human
Subrace- Bugbear

Starting stats [After subrace edits]
Str- 14 [16]
Dex- 15 [17]
Con- 10 [12]
Int- 15 [12]
Wis- 14 [14]
Cha- 8 [5]

All points into Dex

Feats

At creation

Strong Soul
Luck of heroes

lvl 3
Weapon Finesse

lvl 6
Weapon Focus (I reccomend nunchuks. More on this later)

lvl 9
Greater Weapon Focus

lvl 12
Improved Critical

lvl 15
Toughness

lvl 18
Power Critical

lvl 21
Great Dex 1

lvl 24
Great Dex 2

lvl 25 (bonus feat)
Epic Weapon Focus

lvl 27
Great Dex 3

lvl 30
Great Dex 4
Epic Prowess (bonus feat)

lvl 33
Great Dex 5

lvl 35 (bonus feat)
Armor Skin

lvl 36
Great Dex 6

lvl 39
Great Dex 7

lvl 40 (bonus feat)
Superior Critical

Legendary Feats

Legendary Weapon Focus
Legendary Hardened Soul
Great Dex 8
Great Dex 9
Legendary Luck
Great Str 1
Great Str 2


Skills (ranks)

Concentration 30
Craft Armor 40
Craft Weapon 63
Discipline 63
Listen 63
Parry 63
Tumble 60

Stats at 60 in +12 gear

Str- 30
Dex- 58
Con- 24
Int- 24
Wis- 26
Cha- 17

AB- 95 (94 when craft weapon sub 120)
AC- 135

Saves

Fortitude- 64
Reflex- 75
Will- 65

+1 to the above with +14 gear.

Artifact- Orb of Dragonkind
Pandect- Craft Weapon
Survival abilities: Waterbreathing and Levitation (these are the most useful for legendary and lvl 60 runs and are picked at lvl 20 and 40 at the spell pedestal at the docks)

-----------------------
Stats at Double demi in +14 gear and arty

Str- 36 [str, dex, con +4 on checks with asmo belt]
Dex- 64
Con- 32
Int- 30
Wis- 32
Cha- 23

AB- 98 (97 when craft weapon sub 120)
AC- 143 (144 if you can maintain 80+ Craft armor)

Saves

Fortitude- 68
Reflex- 78
Will- 68
--------------------------

So there's the basics. Solid AC and AB on an open sub diet with good saves and immunities thrown in. Even if you can't max out your AC due to penalties or modest gear, you still have 80% conceal to fall back on from empty body. This build should have no problem with the legendary areas, or headed into the depths of hell. It has the dex needed to make all the dex related checks, and a str that will give protection from many str checks and that when paired with a bard will help it stay off the carpet and hit the magic 36 at double demi. (Most Str checks you will encounter range from 28-44. The most common effect is being knocked down, though there is a creature that can dominate you, which is fancy talk for standing there drooling)

Now on to the meat.

INNATE DEFENSE

Earlier I mentioned immunities and this build has some doozies. This build offers complete mind immunity, artifact level poison immunity and item level disease immunity. What this means is that you have no need to cover from gear: Sleep, Stun, Daze, Confusion, Fear, Mind affecting, Poison, Disease. In addition all but the disease is an absolute immunity, meaning that effects under those categories that would normally bypass item immunity, you are unaffected by. The first 4 on that list are generally hard to come by on gear anyway, and not having to worry about them at all is pretty huge. All of that plus 135 ac and 80% conceal is pretty beefy and makes you a frontline tank for any situation.

DON'T LET IT GO TO YOUR HEAD, YOU ARE NOT INVINCIBLE

A Shaolin Thugbear you may be, but you are only one facing the horde. Even with all immunities accounted for there are still many abilities, spells and effects that fall outside what you can cover. All it takes on many of these is to roll a 1 and you will fall. There are also effects that have no saves, simply walking into an area around a monster will inflict a vulnerability upon you. If a creature rolls a 20 it hits you. Get crit by some creatures and it is game over. There are environmental hazards, and the dreaded KB to worry about. KB being kickback, damage of varying elemental and exotic types that are reflected upon you or the entire party when striking an enemy. Being immune to everything is of no help if you beat yourself and your party to death on a creature with KB. Always be aware of your surroundings, and don't forget to restore yourself between fights.


OFFENSE

You should sit at 94 to 96 ab depending on the gear you can scrounge. With an attack progression of -3 this isnt too shabby. With max ranks in listen and that ab you'll end up with a pretty solid hit rate and do decent amounts of damage while fighting on the front line. When possible you should hit something that either isnt hitting you, or is also being attacked by someone else as this gives you a +2 flanking bonus to attack rolls. While it takes time to learn these things, try to find out what can, and can't be easily killed by casters. Once you know, go blast the tough critters and let the squishies think they carried the run

ITEMIZATION

This section has the potential of becoming a magnum opus all by itself so I'll try an keep it short.

WEAPONRY

I HIGHLY reccomend specializing in Nunchuks. While you can focus in kama and get an extra attack from flurry I don't like the math. -2 to all attacks for one extra per round is, IMO, mediocre at best. Even on my BUR sub monk I don't use it. If you really want an extra attack rustle up some toyshop boots and have at it. The main reason I reccomend Chuks is because they cannot be slagged. It's not a common effect, but in several deep runs there are creatures that can turn metal armor and weapons to a chunk of slag, costing you 100 million a pop, or consumables that are not easily farmed. And still cost you 50 million. As an example, there's a guy you'll eventually visit that has a slag DC of 135 if you are wearing robes. Every round. Considering that at best you will have 127 discipline, and only if you have GR cast on you, the math is not in your favor. Oh and on the way you fight critters for an hour or two that do the same thing at varying DC's

GEAR

Well here things get tricky. I can point you out a set of gear that would be awesome and a perfect fit, but in the end, you have to get your hands on it. Randomization also throws a kink into things, as a normally sub par item can suddenly become awesome, or an awesome item can become...well, slag

Things to cover:

You want Death Magic covered at all times. Paralasys and Level Drain are good ideas, and always have an item with haste on it. Freedom is very good to have as it prevents many movement impairing effects. Knockdown will prevent some of those types of attacks but be warned that many KD effects are not preventable through gear. Sneak attack is also usually a good idea, nothing worse than getting crit and snuck at the same time for 3/4 of your life or dead.

You want to maximize your AC. As a dexer you will be wearing robes. Early on your best bet will be trying to find anything with decent AC. Keep in mind only dodge AC stacks with itself, all other types the highest amount takes priority.

You want to get your resists for physical and elemental damage up as early as possible. Items with x / - reduce damage by that amount from that source, ie Sonic 35 / - will always mitigate any sonic damage you take by 35, and this is after your % based immunity is calculated, whatever it may be.

Earlier I mentioned an artifact, and a pandect. These are items you wont be able to use, or get access to until lvl 55 or later. You can only use one of each, and those are the ones I reccomend for this build. The artifact because it grants a boost to your Con score, adds some regen, gives you an attack that inflicts fire vulnerability once every 5 mins and, most importantly, grants you a higher immunity to poison than what you could otherwise get. And that will be very important and useful to you later, as there are a multitude of common monsters that bypass item level immunity and will kill you if you fail the save.

The pandect gives you +10 to craft weapon and helps you to keep your AB up. While AB isnt the end all be all of a melee character, being able to land hits on the big nasties is very important and shouldn't be overlooked.

YOUR ROLE

In LL areas your job is to run in to the middle of spawns an get em real pissed off. Find the big nasties and beat em down. Keep your hp up and keep everything lookin your way. Even sub 60 if you max your ac as best you can that and your immunities and conceal should render you resistant to almost anything that will be thrown at you. Beware of infliction and don't forget to restore.

In hell it'll be a tad different. In the first layer you can play it more or less as you did in the LL areas, but be aware there are many more instakill abilities here. Don't get surrounded away from your party and try to lead the spawn back a little, generally into the clouds casters put down. Your main job in hells is to be the guy that tanks and holds dex check creatures. The most noteable are Malebranches and advespas, though there are others. Beware of Pit fiends and kytons. They do knockdown vs your str, dc 44 and 40 respectively and will be a problem for you without a bard. If you can find a universal contumacy, +14 to str item and a bard you will be immune to both the basic checks (non paragon) unless you roll a 1. That being said, in kyton and pit fiend heavy areas you should avoid being the one that spawns if possible. Don't be leeroy, but don't be scared either

CLOSING

But wait, what about X, or Y?!?

GO TALK TO PEOPLE AND EXPLORE.

The best way to learn is to do, and ask as you go. This is a pretty helpful community and if I really went over all the stuff a prospective new player should know this would be at least a 3 page build. You'd end up with information overload and probably have head explody. There are newbie guides if you want to read em, all I'm doing here is giving a foundation to build on. And I think it's a rather solid one to start with. If I may say so. Which I will.

GO PLAY







_{Edited to show HGE required for feats (thx Stick)
Added role section
Added double demi stats}

[the1kobra]

Well, since you asked for critiques/advice in the other thread,... here are my thoughts on this build:

1: I'm pretty sure you can't take EWF or EProwess on a monk bonus feat, the listing is here. It could be changed on HG, I don't know. Armor skin is on, but for the rest, you really have a choice between: IMPR SR, Blinding Speed, and Self conceal, since the others aren't useful and you won't have the prereqs for the others (like IMPR stunning fist). I'm not sure about superior critical either, but even if not, I wouldn't bother, since you'll only be critting on an 18-20 range tops anyway.

If you need to remove EWF and EProwess, I'd suggest shuffling feats and dropping the two great-strength feats.

2: Pretty sure that craft weapon won't help unarmed strikes and I think that a 12 con is a little on the light side for a d8er. You might want to consider dropping INT by 2 and raising CON by 2, and it leaves you a spare point elsewhere. Current build will wind up with 600 base HP at level 60, (840 with a +12 CON item), and I suppose that could be better but should suffice.

3: I'm pretty sure a pure monk should be better off with their fists than with a single nunchuck. The base damage of the fist is 1d20+20(HG monk edits)+WIS mod(8 in this case). The nunchuck will get 1d6+16(Maximum possible enhancement). Both will get an 18-20 Threat range since 40 monks get autokeen gloves. If you're really set on nunchucks or kamas though, I would reccommend taking a look at trying to fit in the two-weapon fighting feats.
(Note that the above calculation may be based on old data but I'm pretty sure that it should be germane.)

Anyways, I hope this helps.

[BigStick]

Dec 5, 2011 2:35:05 GMT the1kobra said:

...
1: I'm pretty sure you can't take EWF or EProwess on a monk bonus feat, the listing is here. It could be changed on HG, I don't know. Armor skin is on, but for the rest, you really have a choice between: IMPR SR, Blinding Speed, and Self conceal, since the others aren't useful and you won't have the prereqs for the others (like IMPR stunning fist). I'm not sure about superior critical either, but even if not, I wouldn't bother, since you'll only be critting on an 18-20 range tops anyway.
...

With HG Enhanced, you can take those feats as monk bonus feats, but not without. That should be highlighted for the new player.

[bazukar]

All feedback appreciated

1. Stick covered.

2. Craft weapon won't help unarmed. 12 con isn't bad for a dodge tank, and keep in mind it'll be taking a con arty. Should wind up with 960 hp with arty and +14 unless my math is off. I think in general that con is slightly overvalued (only slightly) by ppl on dexers.

3. I think, as it is now, fist monks are kind of gimp. Definitely better than they were, but kinda gimp nonetheless. I've taken one from lvl 1 to a demon prince win and having done that, wish I had done anything but fists. Not having the variety of stats, immunities, effects and another augable slot is a huge disatvantage and the carrots don't come close to outweighing the cons imo. Losing out on a bit of physical damage is a small price to pay for the added survivability and gear flex being able to use the gloves slot brings. Plus with this characters wis mod any glove without a +14 bonus wont beat soak in hells. So no DB or megadamage weapons.

As far as why no dual wield I wanted the torch slot free for another set of options. A decent torch of absorbtion can give a nice boost to defense, and likewise to offense with a torch of the unwary. Or you can use a trickery's friend to boost your ele imms. If someone using this build wants more attacks they can always give toyshop boots a shot and hit 7 attacks per round. Besides, I'm not sure what feats I could drop to make it happen.

I tried to make this build as solid and flexible as I could for a player new to the server. Something that can hit the frontlines in suboptimal gear and still deliver a solid performance. It won't top damage meters, but it won't top the deaths meters either. This thing should have no problems going through the hells and hitting double demi, at which point it could (and should) be reincarnated to a monk variant more suited to the players tastes. And at that point, they'd probably have enough experience to make their own build, or make tweaks to an existing one.

[chirality]

Never knew monk mind imm covered fear, that is cool.

Anyway would have to agree with t1k that 12 Con is a tad light. Just my opinion but I think more hp would be worth +1 AB from CA. Don't see much use at all for Int other than the skill points and the only thing I can think of for Int is Dogai which is a non-issue for this build. Value of Int aside, I think +60 hp would be more of a benefit than +1 AB for an open sub build for new players. I definitely see your reasoning as far as the dodge tank/monk concept goes but still...well, that's just me

[bazukar]

Well, if someone really wanted to they could drop the int, but it wouldnt just be -1 ab. -2 int would mean 60 less skillpoints which means no craft armor bonus and only 43 points in craft weapon. Would be alot tougher to keep 2 ab in mid to deep hells due to pens, which is where you need the AB the most. So +60 hp or -60 skillpoints and -1 ac and less ab. I go with the skills myself, but others are free to do as they want.

I don't think 60 hp is gonna make or break this build on the way to demihood. It'll have the ac, conceal and parry to avoid melee instagib and the saves and immunities to avoid most anything else. It's only real worry is KD by PFs when there isnt a bard around, and when you are KD getting beat on 60 hp won't help

But like I said, you can go for the hp pretty easily and rearrange the skills as you like. There is room for tweakage


Addendum: My rogue has 800 hp and is only instakilled by mariliths when crit after infliction when it comes to melee. At least that loggers have shown so far. This build would have access to better imms and conceal than him.

[chirality]

Yep, didn't mean to "criticize", just my two cents, and good point about the other effects of lost skill points...

Either way looks both solid and fun.

One thing I just thought of (which would also apply equally to any similar tank build, but not gonna go around saying this for everyone's : is maybe it would be nice to give a breakdown or perhaps simply Wiki links for "good" nunchaku that are available? May help a new player know what he should be looking for. I know I definitely didn't have the LL/Hells weapons down by memory or even much familiarity for a long time, and it took me a while to realize how important available damage types via "special weapons" are for tanks, especially when it comes to deciding which one you want to go with.

Anyway that is likely pushing a bit too far into "here's what I would do for this build layout" territory but...eh, not trying to be a nuisance.

[bazukar]

Dec 5, 2011 6:58:14 GMT chirality said:

Yep, didn't mean to "criticize", just my two cents, and good point about the other effects of lost skill points...

Either way looks both solid and fun.

One thing I just thought of (which would also apply equally to any similar tank build, but not gonna go around saying this for everyone's : is maybe it would be nice to give a breakdown or perhaps simply Wiki links for "good" nunchaku that are available? May help a new player know what he should be looking for. I know I definitely didn't have the LL/Hells weapons down by memory or even much familiarity for a long time, and it took me a while to realize how important available damage types via "special weapons" are for tanks, especially when it comes to deciding which one you want to go with.

Anyway that is likely pushing a bit too far into "here's what I would do for this build layout" territory but...eh, not trying to be a nuisance.

Not a nuicance at all and I want criticism. I want ppl to pick my builds apart; that's how they get better

As far as links for what's available weaponswise I don't really think it'll help much. Anything you'll want before hells with the exception of the set megadamage ones are completely random drops. You'll have to find, trade or buy for what you need as you go. It's also why I didn't post more in the gear section, you make do with what you have.

Plus I don't like to make hand holding guides in builds. I give advice on the specific build and it's play, general gear theory and the rest is up to the player. There are other areas with guides for that kind of thing, and I know that I, and others are working on consolidating that kind of information for the new player. Ideally someone new will check the newbie guide, build an open subby character and study the wiki and forums as they level here and there. And talk to people

By the time they hit 60 and are ready to enter the hells they should have some idea what to look for, or at least know what questions to ask. There's also always the newbie channel and the forums to ask questions, which is mainly what I'm trying to encourage.

[arek]

Dec 5, 2011 4:33:49 GMT bazukar said:

Plus with this characters wis mod any glove without a +14 bonus wont beat soak in hells. So no DB or megadamage weapons.

Actually, according to the wiki, the only LL gloves with less than +14 on them are the DB gloves (+12) and maybe the UR Gloves (+13?). Not only that, but you can still, in many cases, get +13 or +14 GMW out of your mage. I'd still use the DIS gloves over the DB ones, tho.

--Arek

[bazukar]

Sorry meant UR not megadamage. And been a long time since I got +14 out of a mage. Legendary enchantment is not common. +13 wont beat most soak and you'd need to pop a draught 90% of the time for +14. And minibosses have +15 soak, and bosses +16.

Like I said, I do not reccomend fist as a weapon to anyone, let alone a new player. Looks good on paper, not so good in practice.

[chirality]

Dec 5, 2011 17:40:39 GMT bazukar said:

As far as links for what's available weaponswise I don't really think it'll help much. Anything you'll want before hells with the exception of the set megadamage ones are completely random drops. You'll have to find, trade or buy for what you need as you go. It's also why I didn't post more in the gear section, you make do with what you have.

Plus I don't like to make hand holding guides in builds. I give advice on the specific build and it's play, general gear theory and the rest is up to the player. There are other areas with guides for that kind of thing, and I know that I, and others are working on consolidating that kind of information for the new player. Ideally someone new will check the newbie guide, build an open subby character and study the wiki and forums as they level here and there. And talk to people

By the time they hit 60 and are ready to enter the hells they should have some idea what to look for, or at least know what questions to ask. There's also always the newbie channel and the forums to ask questions, which is mainly what I'm trying to encourage.

True enough to all points and I agree that "encouraging" actual interaction and "learning" via interaction is preferable to "check this page out". Also definitely agreed on the lack of gear setup section. As you say by the time it starts being an issue you should know enough to know what you should get, or at least know enough that you don't know enough and should ask questions (I swear that makes sense just read it again!).

Anyway though all I meant by the wiki links was actually the megadamage weapons. I meant that I was never familiar with which areas dropped which weapons for a long time, and it's definitely true that this is an example of something that would be learned as you progress, but shrug. The other point would be that if someone wanted to weigh the merits of say nunchaku vs. kama, a critical factor could be which versions of each weapon are available. I wouldn't put it past a new player to decide that a build such as this maybe they wouldn't really plan on taking " the whole way" and maybe just want to level up something for a better subbie, in which case Hells damage vs. LL runs damage becomes a factor--what I'm getting at here is although most players tend to agree and have a unanimous "advice" on what damage types (and hence what weapons) are best for Hells (bludg, then pierce for phys; cold first for ele, fire last, etc.), this set of "tank rules" doesn't apply as universally or even as crucially for a toon that isn't planning on hitting Asmo or for one that is wanting to just hit 50 for example. Or even 60 for that matter; sure, I imagine it's probably common for normal mode toons to start hitting Hells as soon as WS tag is taken (as you can tell I really have no idea though ), but by the same token (edit: oh look unintentional pun, I rule!) 55-60 isn't "that bad" to hit via LL runs, and I know of some players who don't want to rush at all and enjoy taking it very slow and learning as much as they can before they progress to the "next step". And with the likelihood of high-demi parties and the fact that Hells are Fugue zones, I could see a new HGer feeling like they'd want to "feel out" some LL runs before taking their toon to Hells with the vets, which is quite, quite a different ballgame than LL runs, especially with higher numbers to worry about with paras & co.

But yeah...just rambling as usual...

[bazukar]

Anyway though all I meant by the wiki links was actually the megadamage weapons. I meant that I was never familiar with which areas dropped which weapons for a long time, and it's definitely true that this is an example of something that would be learned as you progress, but shrug.

Funny story. While I leveled my fist monk and was doing LL/early hells I went on an epic quest to find or buy all the megadamage weapons. I ended up with all but the ely gloves and....I never used em. The only exception was the toyshop weapon for abos 2. I tried the others, like the acid one on a malebranche and found I still did better damage with a dis weapon. And once you get the gems and cash to craft your weapons the megadamage ones hardly ever get used.

The other point would be that if someone wanted to weigh the merits of say nunchaku vs. kama, a critical factor could be which versions of each weapon are available

I see the point you're making, but my counterpoint has been made. Slag, vs unslaggable. Ichor and asmo form 3 tanking hero, or poor broke slob


I think I need to break this next one up a bit.

I wouldn't put it past a new player to decide that a build such as this maybe they wouldn't really plan on taking " the whole way" and maybe just want to level up something for a better subbie,

That's certianly a possibility and the right of anyone that decides to use this build. However, I did build it to go "the whole way" and think it would have no problems doing so. As well I don't see it having any problems in LL areas if they chose to farm there.

in which case Hells damage vs. LL runs damage becomes a factor--what I'm getting at here is although most players tend to agree and have a unanimous "advice" on what damage types (and hence what weapons) are best for Hells (bludg, then pierce for phys; cold first for ele, fire last, etc.), this set of "tank rules" doesn't apply as universally or even as crucially for a toon that isn't planning on hitting Asmo or for one that is wanting to just hit 50 for example.

Pfft. You can do fine in hells with any damage type. Blunt type weapons are most effective on pit fiends and a few other common critters but every critter has varying immunities, enough to allow any weapon type to do well. As far as elemental damages it depends. There are alot of critters that heal or resist cold so I wouldnt just say cold first, or fire last. Ideally you'll end up with three crafted weapons for hells, 2 you'll constantly use, the third fairly rarely. Thems some funny "tank rules" and should be ignored.

Or even 60 for that matter; sure, I imagine it's probably common for normal mode toons to start hitting Hells as soon as WS tag is taken (as you can tell I really have no idea though ), but by the same token (edit: oh look unintentional pun, I rule!) 55-60 isn't "that bad" to hit via LL runs, and I know of some players who don't want to rush at all and enjoy taking it very slow and learning as much as they can before they progress to the "next step".

Actually the best advice I ever got when I was new was from lostlemon. He said "Don't rush into the hells, take your time. Hit lvl 60 first and stock up on immunity rings" If you are a first time player I would advise you to heed this advice. It saved me alot of pain. There is nothing wrong with playing around in LLs till 60. I advise and encourage it. It's what I did and helped me out alot in the long run.

And with the likelihood of high-demi parties and the fact that Hells are Fugue zones, I could see a new HGer feeling like they'd want to "feel out" some LL runs before taking their toon to Hells with the vets, which is quite, quite a different ballgame than LL runs, especially with higher numbers to worry about with paras & co.

High demi runs arent quite that common. Well, we both say "high demi", we probably have different ideas of what high is. The last several hells runs I did I dont think broke 26 demi. I consider 36+ high demi. Either way as I said before I advise alot of LL area runs pre hells if for no other reason than to get used to kickback, do not hit mobs and the other mechanics you'll run into in hells. Gets you gear too. And hells isnt that much worse usually. A new player will probably do what I did. A few tias here and there and A LOT of dis with the occasional min and phleg tossed in while they flesh out their BUR gear. You don't really hit that ARGH in the hells till stygia. By then you should have some gear and idea how to handle yourself

[bazukar]

Pretty much final version. If anyone sees any issues or mistakes please feel free to beat me over the head with em

[tyranlthixis]

Couple of things.

The information in the build needs a bit of work. Especially with the feats that are unique to HG (legendary luck, strong soul etc). The formatting could use some color or something to make it more visually digestible. There are plenty examples of this on this forum.

The build is solid. It has okay Ab for a monk and good ac and extra attacks. IMHO would have done things differently.

I really don't like pure monk unless there is a specific reason (stunning fist D/C). Is a survival ability + a bit of conceal worth the benefits of another class? Maybe maybe not. I probably would have tried for harper scout....its just needs something to make it less boring.....

The save feats are excessively high. You can do hardened soul + one epic feat and get well above 60. You probably don't even need the second feat. I would have done the dualer feats (ambidex, two weapon etc) to help the AB progression a bit. The "crit" feats are available on easy to get augmenters and gear.

[bazukar]

1) Fair enough, but I assume anyone that would be using forum builds would have at least browsed the class section of the wiki and the newbie thread, and played around in the test chamber. I didn't use colors because depending on what scheme you use it can cause headaches. Figured double spacing was enough.

2) Thanks, and related to a key point Also, it has only 2 less AB than the typical BUR sub monk, similar on the ac. Always interested in specifics on build variants.

3) I don't like pure monks either. I also don't like stunning fist. Monks are strongest when you have other classes splashed, ala HS as you point out. Key point here as previously referenced is solid. This thing is basically as close to gear independant and newbie friendly as I could get. You are right. It is a bit boring. But this was designed as a workhorse that would have maximum performance even in garbage gear from level 1 to asmo. With all the absolute immunities it has you could even roll this guy through abyss and he'd stand up the same as a BUR counterpart. The extra conceal and survival ability is just a side benefit. In some ways, the deeper this guy goes in hell, the stronger he gets. To quote myself, this is an open sub elite spoliated ichor and asmo form 3 tanking hero.

4) I disagree. This build is for a total beginner to learn the mod on and I wanted something that could make any and all saves regardless of paragon level, buff, gear or penalties except for those dreaded 1s. I'm also looking ahead to demi 1. I avoided dual wielding because in +12 gear you'd be stuck at 92 ab at best in deep hells which even with monk progression is bleh. I also omitted it because I want that offhand for torches. You can beef your physical resists and tanking stats with a torch of absorbtion, your elemental imms with a trickerys friend or boost offense and exo resists with a torch of the unwary. This build is all about stability, flexibility and making it to the endgame with as little frustration as possible. I am not a huge fan of the crit feats either but to be honest there wasnt really anything else to take for the last monk bonus feat and it would have taken a serious rework in order to fit in the 3 DW feats. Also I didnt want someone to have to rely on gear for "core" feats.


I accept your critique but I think you need to keep in mind this build is for someone who will be new here, have horrible gear, (and possibly horrible luck as well) and no established support group. This thing will be solid and meet all build minimums I hold BUR sub builds to on an open sub budget. Top rate defenses, extreme support capability due to sturdiness, and while the damage output isnt high, it will have a solid hitrate and will live to deal the damage he can.