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Post by Torin on Feb 1, 2012 17:11:10 GMT
Shifter Tanks i. e. Human forms or Leonal or Dragon make good tanks. Looking at our Wikipage (http://wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Shifter) I wonder what they get from wisdom. "Base DC for non-spell abilities is equal to 10 + Form Rank (listed with each form) + Wis modifier + (foci * 3)."
Dragon: Breath DC Drow warrior: Mortal DC ...?
But the tank abbillities are not affected by Wisdom (is that so?).Could it be that I could decrease/Ignore Wis on a Shifter Tank?
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Post by tomaan on Feb 1, 2012 17:31:04 GMT
Shifter Tanks i. e. Human forms or Leonal or Dragon make good tanks. Looking at our Wikipage (http://wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Shifter) I wonder what they get from wisdom. "Base DC for non-spell abilities is equal to 10 + Form Rank (listed with each form) + Wis modifier + (foci * 3)." Dragon: Breath DC Drow warrior: Mortal DC ...? But the tank abbillities are not affected by Wisdom (is that so?).Could it be that I could decrease/Ignore Wis on a Shifter Tank? Wisdom controls your ability increases (i.e. str/dex) and I believe shield AC as well so you want to max it as much as possible.
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Post by fallenwizard on Feb 1, 2012 17:40:59 GMT
For all shifters - the basic abilities like medusa stone and basilisk deathgaze uses wisdom for DC. If you dont plan to ever use these (ie have dc so low they're worthless) there's really no point of making a shifter in first place, idea behin shifter tanks is that they have these basic shifter abilities while focusing on fighting forms to take beating and deal damage. So if you give up the abilities, you can just aswell make a fighter with better overall tanking capabilities.
Sure you can sing and curse with just harpy + leonal and do some minor things that only scales from CL and has no saves involved, but overaly str/dex are meaningless on shifter since the forms overwrites base stats - featwise there is ofcourse other possibilities, if you want to only swing weapon and use the abilities that doesnt rely on DC at all. I also guess -5 DC from having 0 wisdom feats (not sure if you can find enough usefull shifter bonus feats to take over great wis) wouldnt totaly bar you from using DC abilities, but does severaly gimp them.
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Post by Torin on Feb 1, 2012 19:27:06 GMT
I was thinking of something like 10 Shifter 25 Druid 5 Ranger with Outsider Leonal. And take 31 Dex for Battle Druid, + Epics (Veil of the Mists(+20Natural AC), elemental shunt),
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Post by uncanny on Feb 1, 2012 20:48:38 GMT
Well... good thing is you'll still have your CL high, but I'm not sure you will get much useful out of that much druid compared to Ranger. Side benefit is you will get druid shapes, though I'm not sure if they're any good tbh other than dragon.
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Post by redbeard on Feb 1, 2012 21:04:23 GMT
I tried the fear howl on my outsider Leonal today. It's DC is affected by wisdom.
Spell slots from gear disappear when shifted. That will reduce the effectiveness of your druid. They do reappear when you unshift, but they're empty.
Outsider requires 25 wisdom and epic shifter. You'll want the wisdom for druid spells. I'm not sure you can take outsider before shifter 11 (depends on dedfinition of epic shifter). I guess if a uni-tank can get two abilities that high the shifter can too.
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Post by dragonledak on Feb 1, 2012 21:33:12 GMT
I made a ranger cc humanoid shifter tank that focused on constitution instead of wisdom and it worked fine.
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Post by tomaan on Feb 2, 2012 1:50:46 GMT
I made a ranger cc humanoid shifter tank that focused on constitution instead of wisdom and it worked fine. How were your abilities/stats in shifted forms?
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Post by dragonledak on Feb 2, 2012 2:06:12 GMT
Form Str Dex Drow 54 24 Lizardfolk 61 20 Kobold 16 59 Kenku 14 63 Sahaugin 54 14
these are without gear
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Post by Shakua on Feb 2, 2012 2:10:26 GMT
Shifter tank dont need wisdom. Made mine with 18 after subrace adjustments.
5 druid/13 shifter/22 ranger. All extra stats to con. == 1500 + hp while shifted..
Lizard folk lash form == 112 ab, 142 ac (no gird) 77 str, 38 dex. Makes a better lash then a maxed real lash. Had 200k damage for nessus run.
Also have a dragon tank stormlord. Very hard to get the 30 base wisdom and 32 base dex though. Only a few subraces work.
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Post by dragonledak on Feb 2, 2012 2:17:12 GMT
Yeah personally I just took enough wis to have a solid will save without save feats and dumped the rest in con except I took it the other way around so I could max hp, have 1606 shifted with +12 stats.
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Post by Shakua on Feb 2, 2012 2:41:18 GMT
Shifter Tanks i. e. Human forms or Leonal or Dragon make good tanks. Looking at our Wikipage (http://wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Shifter) I wonder what they get from wisdom. "Base DC for non-spell abilities is equal to 10 + Form Rank (listed with each form) + Wis modifier + (foci * 3)." Dragon: Breath DC Drow warrior: Mortal DC ...? But the tank abbillities are not affected by Wisdom (is that so?).Could it be that I could decrease/Ignore Wis on a Shifter Tank? Wisdom controls your ability increases (i.e. str/dex) and I believe shield AC as well so you want to max it as much as possible. wisdom does not control them factors. its pure ep level. anything more then a 5 slash damages this though.
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Post by tomaan on Feb 2, 2012 4:35:24 GMT
Form Str Dex Drow 54 24 Lizardfolk 61 20 Kobold 16 59 Kenku 14 63 Sahaugin 54 14 these are without gear Yep, same as mine with maxed Wisdom. So you can go the maxed Wisdom route for ability DCs and benefits from (CC) Ranger spells (Polymorph Fey/Troll in particular) or go the max Con route for huge hp. That gives a lot of feat flexibility -- might even be worth raising strength and taking OC/DC unarmed strike. I play tanks a lot and I'm starting to appreciate the versatility of the shifter tank -- there are a number of different ways you can go and still be very effective.
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Post by Shakua on Feb 2, 2012 5:25:34 GMT
better to find one them weird oc/dc shields over wasting them stats.
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Post by Torin on Feb 2, 2012 6:35:31 GMT
Thanks to all of you. Very interesting informations so far. In particulary Shakua, the numbers of are awesome!
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