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Post by chirality on Mar 10, 2012 7:54:32 GMT
Plant domain allows you to turn vemrin (and plants with a gear), including Advespas. Advespa are vermin? Why?
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Post by desocupado on Mar 10, 2012 12:56:11 GMT
Plant domain allows you to turn vemrin (and plants with a gear), including Advespas. Advespa are vermin? Why? From dictionary.reference.com/browse/verminVermin - ver·min noun, plural ver·min. 1. noxious, objectionable, or disgusting animals collectively, especially those of small size that appear commonly and are difficult to control, as flies, lice, bedbugs, cockroaches, mice, and rats. 2. an objectionable or obnoxious person, or such persons collectively. 3. animals that prey upon game, as coyotes or weasels.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2012 14:06:25 GMT
Desco...I will admit to my newbish idiocy as turner builder....I thought a cleric level was required for turning (face palm). So in the end, which is a more effective turner- a pure pal/bg or a pure cleric? Pure pal/bg gets the cha bonus but pure cleric gets pretty sweet greater restoration, and other buffs. Would be sweet if battletide could be based on cha if cha is higher than wis. GR, in my experience, is the difference between 14 kills and 84 kills at x1. Gonna do my due diligence before I taste more foot, and after some research maybe suggest a quasiclass. Thanks for the nice builds, the info. and please keep it coming.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 10, 2012 14:24:35 GMT
Desco...I will admit to my newbish idiocy as turner builder....I thought a cleric level was required for turning (face palm). So in the end, which is a more effective turner- a pure pal/bg or a pure cleric? Pure pal/bg gets the cha bonus but pure cleric gets pretty sweet greater restoration, and other buffs. Would be sweet if battletide could be based on cha if cha is higher than wis. GR, in my experience, is the difference between 14 kills and 84 kills at x1. Gonna do my due diligence before I taste more foot, and after some research maybe suggest a quasiclass. Thanks for the nice builds, the info. and please keep it coming. Cleric is still overall more effective/useful even tough this turner has 2 more cha mod at level 80. However, this guy has some different tricks, in no particular order: Amazing physical damage Paladin breach on hit Very high resists Godlike saves Decent base STR 20-26 for checks (enough for PF) High Disciple and Parry A long timer "regular damage" smite Turning all mobs avaliable Bearable AC (not good really) Stronger Turning while regular smite is up, and better destruction DC (it loses 2 TR and 1 DC without regular smite)
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Post by chirality on Mar 10, 2012 15:38:56 GMT
Advespa are vermin? Why? From dictionary.reference.com/browse/verminVermin - ver·min noun, plural ver·min. 1. noxious, objectionable, or disgusting animals collectively, especially those of small size that appear commonly and are difficult to control, as flies, lice, bedbugs, cockroaches, mice, and rats. 2. an objectionable or obnoxious person, or such persons collectively. 3. animals that prey upon game, as coyotes or weasels. Not sure why the sarcasm or what this is meant to be...I certainly wasn't attacking you at all; I quoted you because I never knew vespa were vermin. I'm not asking you why it is, or what a vermin is, so I really don't see why you are doing the snarky dictionary quote thing. I guess I wasn't clear, and it was off-topic, so I will try again in a different thread. Thanks.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 10, 2012 16:39:01 GMT
Not sure why the sarcasm or what this is meant to be...I certainly wasn't attacking you at all; I quoted you because I never knew vespa were vermin. I'm not asking you why it is, or what a vermin is, so I really don't see why you are doing the snarky dictionary quote thing. I guess I wasn't clear, and it was off-topic, so I will try again in a different thread. Thanks. Just trying to be informative. (That's a "mimic" Funky) First time i saw that advespa was vermin, I was surprised too. Well, the paragon advespa fits into "vermin".
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 0:37:49 GMT
Thats why I took plant as a domain in paragon levels on my turner. Not sure if its worth it though to be really honest, unless there are other vermin in the game worth turning. Lotsa things much worse than advespa that are covered by the sun domain in ely and abyss (than).
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Post by desocupado on Mar 11, 2012 4:19:58 GMT
Thats why I took plant as a domain in paragon levels on my turner. Not sure if its worth it though to be really honest, unless there are other vermin in the game worth turning. Lotsa things much worse than advespa that are covered by the sun domain in ely and abyss (than). I'd say it's helpful for leveling, and getting a few demi interations. The Ely robe, make this domain affects plants as well.
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Post by Raj on Mar 11, 2012 6:48:01 GMT
Paladins/bg stun; clerics kill.
There's a big difference in party usefulness as well (buffs,epics,save-dropping from a lvl 60 cleric turner).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 15:03:08 GMT
Paladins/bg stun; clerics kill. There's a big difference in party usefulness as well (buffs,epics,save-dropping from a lvl 60 cleric turner). No argument here, but would definitely be interested in reading the facts/reasoning behind this statement. It is a learning curve and this thread has turned into a kind or turner build workshop, your participation and input are welcome.
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Post by Raj on Mar 11, 2012 16:16:39 GMT
A pure turner has 2 more TP, so it can destroy things the pally/bg can only stun; they can use smite attempts to be even, but not full time ( smites recharge 1/minute, definitely not enough to turn full time, and if you go pure you lose domains as well ). DC-wise, cha tanks get +4 to the relevant stat but clerics get bonus gwis and domain feats so that's a tie. Overall, a dedicated cleric turner is going to clear spawns fast, and can istakill some nasty randoms/paragons full time as well.
Now, what else are those toons bringing to the party, that makes me feeling cleric turner is a better addition than a paladin/bg?
The cleric turner is a supporter as good as a caster cleric on most runs, thanks to epics, gr, buffs, so once they join there's one less caster role to cover. The pally/bg is 'just another tank', and a frail one tbh: bad ac, can't reliably make dex checks, very buff reliant so has to wear mord+breach costantly and once he dies he has hard time recovering. Offensive-wise it's forced to use a low crit multiplier rapier w/o dev crit so can't clear fodder fast, that's ok most of the time because it shall focus on the big nastiness but piercing dmg isn't very nice and can't really fit LSA:Listen for better to hit chances, or GTWF, or make room for some toy boots for more attacks; if smites are used, they compete with turning abilities.
So, while a cleric turner buffs the party, turns the fodder and then supports against the tough foes, a pally/bg asks for buffs, turns the fodder ( bit less ) and then deals sub-optimal dmg against what's left; a funny build in theory but specialized builds wins over jack-of-all-trades ones, when you look at the best performances on this server.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 12, 2012 2:36:31 GMT
So, while a cleric turner buffs the party, turns the fodder and then supports against the tough foes, a pally/bg asks for buffs, turns the fodder ( bit less ) and then deals sub-optimal dmg against what's left; a funny build in theory but specialized builds wins over jack-of-all-trades ones, when you look at the best performances on this server. Wisewords. The divine fighter turner is still poor compared to a cleric. Well, it was a good exercise to try to make a paladin/bg turner. Another silly idea to add on this theorical attempt: Using a Rapier + Ruby Rod of Asmodeus, keeping shield AC with divine shield (+17 on this build) and critical immunity all the time, and infinity Bestow curse 60. I'd say that the pure smiter/stunner is a good jack of all trades, for a tank. I'm loving playing mine, tough abysmall dex hurts. I think going pure really fixed that build by increasing the effectiveness of the stun, at least for hells good/evil domain is already very helpful, and the paragon levels can be used to broaden the stunnable targets. Now exploring another possibility, has anyone tried a Cleric turner with rapier wit?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 3:28:01 GMT
So, while a cleric turner buffs the party, turns the fodder and then supports against the tough foes, a pally/bg asks for buffs, turns the fodder ( bit less ) and then deals sub-optimal dmg against what's left; a funny build in theory but specialized builds wins over jack-of-all-trades ones, when you look at the best performances on this server. Wisewords. The divine fighter turner is still poor compared to a cleric. Well, it was a good exercise to try to make a paladin/bg turner. Another silly idea to add on this theorical attempt: Using a Rapier + Ruby Rod of Asmodeus, keeping shield AC with divine shield (+17 on this build) and critical immunity all the time, and infinity Bestow curse 60. I'd say that the pure smiter/stunner is a good jack of all trades, for a tank. I'm loving playing mine, tough abysmall dex hurts. I think going pure really fixed that build by increasing the effectiveness of the stun, at least for hells good/evil domain is already very helpful, and the paragon levels can be used to broaden the stunnable targets. Now exploring another possibility, has anyone tried a Cleric turner with rapier wit? Well I have been working on a 4/5 turner, tank, summoner. I don't think its silly to come up with bg/paly turner builds, they can make a solid contribution to the party and can solo well. Raj is right but in being right he throws some challenges out there. Can one make a turner tank that can turn almost as effectively as the best pure turners, and tank almost as effectively as the best tanks? My x1 bg turner is pretty effective but with heavy hells penalties it does rely on GR way too much. I really want to see how it does at x3. Right now its like Pat. Is it a tank or is it a turner? Not tough enough to be a real tank but not hot enough to be a real turner. The real benefit is being in a party with a ploder who will gr you. That way they party gets a real cleric, and a support tank that stuns everything. Its ac is 130, phys imms are near 100%, and all of its saves are between 80 and 100. I think if I played it right it would be a monster. The ploder often will not want to keep you in gr though because you will eat into his kills. A party with a solid cleric turner and more than enough tanking won't really want you though unless they are looking for filler. Cleric with rapier wit....we can have fun and probably come up with something good playing with the idea of turner battle cleric. Divine power opens a ton of options though it eats a domain that is useless for turning. Taking divine tank levels also hurts TL.
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Post by Raj on Mar 12, 2012 6:50:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 11:58:20 GMT
Gear: Nice...despite following proboards exact directions, I get "image", instead of the actual image linked to. Anyways the link is: imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/tazascreen.jpg/Depending on the situation gear can obviously be switched around to meet current needs. In the screeny of that set-up slashing is 127%, and bludge and pierce are in the high 80's. I can get the elemental imms (2 or three at a time) at about 100+% if I take the phys imms down by about 20%.
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