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Post by desocupado on Feb 22, 2012 20:30:11 GMT
Well I've been doing some tests in which 2 schools to pick as barred for my PM. So far these are the 6 non-pm schools and their respective usable spells:
Divination - None (barring it doesn't stop you form using PWK - tested)
Enchantment: Vocalize
Transmutation: GS - Time Stop - Flesh to Stone - Keen Weapon (barring it shouldn't stop Bestow curse - analogy with PWK)
Conjuration: Gate - BBoD
Evocation: Bigby IX - Gust (only worth if you get ESF)
Abjuration - Clarity - Mind blank - Disjunction (I believe you can counter even if the school barred, if you learn the spell before barring de scholl OR use an arcane research crystal to learn it - tested by analogy) - No longer works like this, this one must never be barred.
Abjuration and Divination seems the best pick, but i wonder if it's intended to be possible to counter with ABJ barred. It isn't.
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Post by tyranlthixis on Feb 22, 2012 20:50:53 GMT
Div and Enchant would be your two least disruptive spell schools to ban in my opinion.
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Post by tyranlthixis on Feb 22, 2012 20:56:13 GMT
Well I've been doing some tests in which 2 schools to pick as barred for my PM. So far these are the 6 non-pm schools and their respective usable spells: Divination - None ( barring it doesn't stop you form using PWK - tested) Enchantment: Vocalize Transmutation: GS - Time Stop - Flesh to Stone - Keen Weapon ( barring it shouldn't stop Bestow curse - analogy with PWK) Conjuration: Gate - BBoD Evocation: Bigby IX - Gust Abjuration - Clarity - Mind blank ( I believe you can counter even if the school barred, if you learn the spell before barring de scholl OR use an arcane research crystal to learn it - tested by analogy) Abjuration and Divination seems the best pick, but i wonder if it's intended to be possible to counter with ABJ barred. Oh and if find ways to cheese out the system know with 100% certainty there is no future in that exploit. Don't bother building around it. Just report it and move on. |
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Post by desocupado on Feb 23, 2012 0:53:22 GMT
Well I've been doing some tests in which 2 schools to pick as barred for my PM. So far these are the 6 non-pm schools and their respective usable spells: Divination - None ( barring it doesn't stop you form using PWK - tested) Enchantment: Vocalize Transmutation: GS - Time Stop - Flesh to Stone - Keen Weapon ( barring it shouldn't stop Bestow curse - analogy with PWK) Conjuration: Gate - BBoD Evocation: Bigby IX - Gust Abjuration - Clarity - Mind blank ( I believe you can counter even if the school barred, if you learn the spell before barring de scholl OR use an arcane research crystal to learn it - tested by analogy) Abjuration and Divination seems the best pick, but i wonder if it's intended to be possible to counter with ABJ barred. Oh and if find ways to cheese out the system know with 100% certainty there is no future in that exploit. Don't bother building around it. Just report it and move on. What is the exploit here? Barring Abjuration but still being able to use it for counter spelling? My doubt is: Isn't this working as intended? |
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Post by tyranlthixis on Feb 23, 2012 1:05:41 GMT
No it is not working as intended if you have access to spells from banned schools.
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Post by tyranlthixis on Feb 23, 2012 1:13:17 GMT
from the server documentation....
You will have to sacrifice all use of two schools of casting to enhance another.
The moral of the story here is: Don't feel bad. You haven't done anything wrong. However, please file a bug report and do not ban abjuration unless you feel like giving up use of that school is a worthwhile trade off.
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Post by uncanny on Feb 23, 2012 9:24:13 GMT
Tyran,
Sorry, that's a bit too cryptic for my befuddled brain. Do you mean that use of PWK and Bestow Curse should not work if related schools are barred? If so.. then perhaps PM documentation needs update to state this specifically, since the docs state that they're treated as Necro?
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Post by Raj on Feb 23, 2012 10:19:49 GMT
He's just saying that being able to memorize mords to counterspell is something you shoudn't be able to do if you barred abj; atm you can, but it's not supposed to be so, and he's telling deso to not rely on that "exploit" (  ) because it could be fixed at any time leaving him with a bad build choice. Pwk and bc are necro spells for pms, there's nothing wrong with them. As a personal note, barring abj is a bad idea anyway because being able to cast mords/breaches from memory saves you a lot of time compared to use scrolls/rods in caster-heavy runs and those spells work the same regardless of casterlev. |
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Post by desocupado on Feb 23, 2012 12:09:55 GMT
That leaves Evocation, Enchantment and Divination as good choices, no?
Unless you grab ESF Evocation for an usable Gust. (there aren't many decent targets for Bigby 9 that would be better disposed with the palemaster spells) with the exception of a Raksha spawned after a Death of Magic.
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Post by desocupado on Feb 23, 2012 12:13:23 GMT
As a personal note, barring abj is a bad idea anyway because being able to cast mords/breaches from memory saves you a lot of time compared to use scrolls/rods in caster-heavy runs and those spells work the same regardless of casterlev. As counter spells, they work just fine. However Mord is useless for debuffing without CL. Greater spell breach works fine as it doesn't relly on CL nor SR. |
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Post by MurphysLawAgain on Feb 23, 2012 12:16:59 GMT
Word to the wise. Your ability to PWK Paragon Glabrezu's in the Abyss depends on your Divination focii - even if you are a PM. So I would advise people reading this thread not to block Divination. Pale Master is the worst possible class to reincarnate having to do so because of this absolutely sucks.
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Post by uncanny on Feb 23, 2012 12:47:56 GMT
Word to the wise. Your ability to PWK Paragon Glabrezu's in the Abyss depends on your Divination focii - even if you are a PM. So I would advise people reading this thread not to block Divination. Pale Master is the worst possible class to reincarnate having to do so because of this absolutely sucks. Blocking the school won't stop you from taking the feat; and I wouldn't consider that as an exploit or bug in any sense of the word: taking focus doesn't go against the block. Just like a gnome can take weapon focus Greatsword yet cannot feasibly use it as a gnome, so too can a caster be barred from a school but focus in it. In addition, some races carry focus feats so it's going to happen. If management don't agree, no problem - but then at least this should be highlighted asap so that builds can be corrected; or not attempted at all in some cases. |
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Post by desocupado on Feb 23, 2012 14:18:21 GMT
Word to the wise. Your ability to PWK Paragon Glabrezu's in the Abyss depends on your Divination focii - even if you are a PM. So I would advise people reading this thread not to block Divination. Pale Master is the worst possible class to reincarnate having to do so because of this absolutely sucks. Blocking the school won't stop you from taking the feat; and I wouldn't consider that as an exploit or bug in any sense of the word: taking focus doesn't go against the block. Just like a gnome can take weapon focus Greatsword yet cannot feasibly use it as a gnome, so too can a caster be barred from a school but focus in it. In addition, some races carry focus feats so it's going to happen. If management don't agree, no problem - but then at least this should be highlighted asap so that builds can be corrected; or not attempted at all in some cases. What about the fact that Powerword Kill is considered a PM spell and it's description states that it shoul be considered Necromancy for all effects? Besides that, PMs have +6 CL on necromancy spells, so unless the Hit Dice of the mobs is aimed especifically at PM, they should be able to PWK anything a sorcerer or wizard could, no? |
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Post by gandoron on Feb 23, 2012 15:11:22 GMT
Div foci was specifically allowed for boosting PWK on PM to give them another option besides Trans for their book. Basically pushing diversity and "choices". Otherwise Trans was basically a shoe-in for epic wall (though actually you can stone 0SR mobs like machines and flesh Jelley, etc).
-G
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Post by kralex on Feb 23, 2012 15:26:56 GMT
Can we get an official and detailed list of what barring schools is supposed to disallow? Is it meant to block using foci to improve spells of a different school? (Like Ench/GMW, Div/PWK for PM, etc)? Is it meant to prevent casting epic spells from that school? (It currently does not) It would help to know what is and what isn't considered "exploiting" here.
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) because it could be fixed at any time leaving him with a bad build choice.
