Abyss Specialized Sorcerer

[pete]

I am reincarnating one of my sorcerers
This one has conquered hells, abo and ely, now my sights are set on getting it a prince win and solar mote

After reincarnation it will be level 72

I don’t have any real experience with abyss though, I played it a bit when it was new, but don’t really know what I will need to make a sorcerer specialized for abyss

Unless someone has a good reason not to it will be a standard pure sorcerer build with 4 LSF and extra spell known(will discuss paragon choices later)

For abyss which spells and foci will be best? (this build will be meant purely for abyss, I have another sorc for hell, ely and abo)

At the moment I’m planning:
LSF conj (focused damage + Acid)
Evoc (area fire elec cold sonic damage)
Necro (ED + CoD + EV + Horrid)
Enchantment (maze)

Lvl 9
ED
Mordenkainens Disjunction
Maze
PWK (rely on tia staff + pots)

Lvl 8
Sunburst
Greater Planar Binding
Horrid Wilting
Premonition

Lvl7
Great Thunderclap
Banish (can get GSF from runestaff)
Rebuke (can get GSF from many-as-one)
Delayed Blast Fireball
Greater Orb of Acid (via extra spells known)

Lvl 6
CoD
Ethereal Visage
Chain Lightning
Freezing Sphere

Lvl 5
Wrack
Energy Buffer
hold monster
Lesser Spell Mantle
Vitriolic Sphere

Lvl 4
Remove Curse
Evards Black Tentacles
Bestow Curse
Enervate
Fear

Lvl 3
Clarity
Gust of Wind
Negative Energy Burst
Slow
GMW

Lvl 2
Cloud of Bewilderment
Flame Weapon
Ghostly Visage
Shock Weapon
Web
Melfs Acid Arrow

Lvl 1
Endure Elements
Expeditious Retreat
Grease
Mage Armor
Persistant Blade
Protection from Alignment

So there we have it, a spell selection I’ve pieced together based on what I’ve been told in game

As for paragon levels, I’m planning PSP, 2x PSF and 1 PSK. At the moment I’m drifting toward PSF evoc and necro, with PSK evoc (empowered and maximised energy drain!).

Planning enchantment for last focus

Thanks for the advise.

Pete

[fallenwizard]

First off.

Necro > all, period.

Trans < necro,illu,conju,evoc,enc,div - makes it worth it as 7th focus.

What I'd recommed for abyss is Illu/Necro/Evoc/Enc sorc - evards/summons are strong, but you can summon with tia staff + channel very easily, evards you can live with missing few AB.

Lvl 9 drop bigby for ED, mord is questionable. Lvl 8 Horrid wilt, so drop either cloud or premo. For lvl 7 drop the orbs for banish + rebuke. Lvl 6 disint to CoD.

[pete]

ill drop Trans for Necro, on reflection it does seem better (better instakills and better epic)
will be editing post

but dropping conj for enchant? orbs + evards + acid damage have given this toon fantastic damage in other areas of the server, im not sure why enchant would be better? especially since i can use hive helm for GSF

tempted to drop ruin for extra spells known lvl 6 and get UtD (which i was told is good to have in abyss as well as sunburst, is this true?)

[fallenwizard]

Enc focuses because unlike PWK, rebuke has DC check.

U2D is nice, but uses in abyss where you need to have that over sunburst are quite limited. Also sometimes you can just spam damage aoe over trying to get enemies roll low on u2d.

[Vichya]

The mage I build for Abyss has necro, evoc, conj and div focus. I dropped illusion and trans because there were the spells I barely used at all. Weird is nice but most stuff can be killed by death magic too.

Enchantment is a viable and interesting school, but I don't think you can fit in all the nice enchantment spells. So you only use it for Rebuke and GMW.

I think conjuration is very good to have. A lot of abyss runs are done in small groups, sometimes without bards. Having more AB on evards and orb spells helps then.

[pete]

ty

would you take ruin over a different level extra spell known? greater acid or cold orbs seem good for balor or marilith.
what elements do the princes take? is there an orb that would be worth it? or is it just not worth it on a sorc that cant really afford to duplicate effects when I already have area elemental damage spells

im still not convinced about taking enchant foci though, it would only be for rebuke, and would only be +4 DC (+2 if I use droughts) compared to better summons, acid damage, evards, web, greese and the conj epic seems better than enchant

Vichya - does the loss of 5% concealment not cause you trouble, its the main reason I kept illus

Other than PWK and premonition, are there any other divination spells that would be woth fitting on my build?

thanks for the advise, keep it coming
still mulling it over

[archmage]

Taking enchant without taking illusion is of dubious value. IF you take enchant you can do more than just rebuke btw. +15 GMW's, uber mind fogs to drop will saves, you could take maze and land things like hold monster. All in all I have to agree though, enchant seems weak. MY abyss sorc is Enchant, Illusion, Trans, and Evo. I wear a simbul's ego full time, so I can banish and pwk and dessicate without relying on runestaves. Taking orbs without conj focus is an iffy choice, and you can draught, channel, and preferably use a simbuls or gsf item to lay evards.

[Raj]

Just play your actual sorc for a bunch of runs and get the feeling of what you need and what you lack, following forum advices without knowing why you need a certain focus or spell is doing you no good.

Ruin is not worth a feat on any caster that's not a pm if you are in a decent party anyway, with the need of fitting paragon focii/spells.

[Salek]

Mar 26, 2012 7:20:44 GMT Raj said:

Just play your actual sorc for a bunch of runs and get the feeling of what you need and what you lack, following forum advices without knowing why you need a certain focus or spell is doing you no good.

This!

Cheers,
Salek

[Lee]

Mar 26, 2012 7:20:44 GMT Raj said:

Ruin is not worth a feat on any caster that's not a pm if you are in a decent party anyway, with the need of fitting paragon focii/spells.

Dont listen to raj, he's a bad example

[Raj]

In fact I suggest that only cuz I'm envious of people KS a cursed+prayered+drained lemure or raising their dmg count against a not ruinable target

[pete]

thanks for the info

at the moment I'm leaning toward LSF evoc conj necro for sure

planning divination for the last focus, this is due to my only simbuls item being on boots and I don't want to give up Styxwalkers, the slots, +16 cha and amni immunity make it too nice. I have GSF abj torch (abo runestaff) and GSF enchant helm (many-as-one). i don't have any GSF Divination items (are there any set items with it?) and without it id be limited to the first level paragons with PWK. but iv got to say the only things it seems to be good for are PWK and premonition, am i missing something? might just take ESF, since LSF would only boost premo and add 30 HP to PWK, and grab an extra spells known.

id forgotten about enchant having maze and hold, but i think PWK is more valuable in abyss (right?)

im assuming the "drop greater ruin" comment was serious, will probably take extra spells known when i work out which focus i want

[gandoron]

I think it's hard to justify ESF Div on non-PM caster. using a GSF-all or GSF-div item is normally the best (you can get these eventually). Fallen/Arch should confirm, but I believe SF from staff + draught, let's you hit P2s. only LSF helps premo, and honestly I dropped premo on my sorc for more damage output. You can do gtr stoneskin +channel from an abo staff to get +15, and with styx you get 5 uses of Epic Warding, which many times can cover you between rests (though sorcs can go a long time).

I still like Ill, though honestly outside of Weird (and EV) it's not that amazing.

I like ruin (for sunbeams, fountains, etc), but it's not a must have. Extra spell or another LSF might be worth it.

dropping from 85% (72% effective) to 80% (64%) is a big deal, it means you get hit 30% more often.

-G

[Raj]

Mar 26, 2012 19:55:19 GMT gandoron said:

I like ruin (for sunbeams, fountains, etc), but it's not a must have. Extra spell or another LSF might be worth it.

At lvl 80 with psf evo/necro you're looking at 58 dc on gusts vs all fumes, horrids for funtains are at 63 dc, and you can add +1 for ego and +2 for channeling/drain; ruins cap at 65 so its use against those two targets (with 0 sr) is arguable. [note: pete is lvl 72 so should be at max dc or very close to it already, for first hell timers at 55-60 it's a bit more useful]

I don't miss it when soloing, and in a party with implosions at dc 63 under GR there's something really wrong if you have to ruin those: usually ruin is just a KS button, or a useful tool to show party you're a total noob when you target not-ruinable things.

The only true valuable GR target I can think are standard/abyss Aboleths, but a extra spell or one more focus are way more useful.

[pete]

thanks for the help, i think i have a build I'm happy with
hopefully this will make it a valuable asset to an abyss party (be it on your heads if you have to drag me )

decided to drop illus for enchant
the conceal loss is only 4% due to tia staff, i know this will make a difference, but rebuke, maze and hold monster seem quite nice from checking the bestiary. the epic isn't amazing, but could be nice, but the paragon spell (though id only get that at lvl 80) seems very nice (half KB for CL/rounds (8 min at lvl 80))

divine just didn't seem worth it, just for PWK (and the epic isn't that good)

abj was the other choice that tempted me, for banish, mord and quite nice epic and paragon spells

will try to get my hands on a simbuls item that doesn't conflict with my gear

debating loosing premonition, as with tia staff and styxwalkers id have 7/rest uses of epic warding (50/+20) with a duration of 3 min each...

last question (hopefully), think ill take extra spells known, but not sure what spell to take
a greater orb might be the way to go (not sure which element though, acid looks good for balors, but i don't know if there are any low conceal, element taking bosses)
or mind fog, useful for rebuke, maze or hold monster
any suggestions?