Shifter Construct vs Outsider

[fraglord85]

the topic says it all wich one to choose?

what im looking for

Soloing
Hells abyss

wich one would u suggest me and why!

also if u had 1 free feat to pick wich wud u take ?

Either Construct lvl 1 ? or outsider lvl 1 ? depending on what the answers are

or LL form defense > = 3 ac on forms
or Paragorn focus in either
Humanoid Wildshape Undead or Construct/Outsider

plz help me out with this

[Yojimbo]

I think for what and where you want to go and do the Outsider might hold more utility I know Construct has some nice power and tank forms and is practically a must for Aboleth runs. I would say if you are playing a Tank shifter the AC +3 is very handy but a utility shifter would likely do better with Paragon Form Focus or an additional form. As warning I add that I do not play shifters and am evaluating off what I have seen people run and skimming over the documents on the class.

[CataclysmicDeath]

I'd take Construct over Outsider, mainly case not all the forms are working for Outsider yet iirc.

Also Construct gets Amni immunity and can breathe in any environment.

It's forms offer damage output, crowd control, tankage, instakill.

I don't think outsider can offer that.

As for the extra feat I certainly wouldn't waste time with just 1 extra form without Form Focuses, the DC is too low to be useful on the abilities you do get and you miss out on the extra abilities form focuses give you.

On my Construct/Undead Shifter I took Paragon Form Focus in Undead, Construct and Humanoid and it's a decision I've yet to regret, took it to Cania last night and out killed the Cleric, and the Cleric was one of the better players on the server imo. So Paragon Form Focuses would be the way to go, unless you really want the extra defense though fully geared I can't see you really needing it.

Although having said that we don't know what Elder Evils will bring yet...

Cata

[maljin]

I went with wildshape 3, undead 3, construct 3, outsider 1 at lvl 60. 30 tumble is all you'll get by crossclassing unless you splash monk/bard/rogue/... but since I get 10 ac from imp expertise while using my abilities it's not a big loss. Blooded + LSA: tumble is 6 ac, while spending a pre-epic and a leg. feat. Imp expertise is 10 situational ac (takes some time to get used to it) but cost only 2 pre-epic feats of which you should have plenty.
With paragon levels I can actually get all the forms to level 4 or just wildshape 4, increase outsider to 3 in case they get some more abilities and add humanoid/dragon 3.

On my other shifter I didn't take construct (wildshape 3, undead 3, outsider 3 and LSA: tumble) and I really regret that choice. Outsider 1 is nearly as good as outsider 3 since you get all the auras, bard song and the spell changes on rak; all you lose is a couple of dc on abilities/spells that check for half/full damage.

I wouldn't bother with the +3 ac feats unless you're building a shifter that spends most of his time in melee forms and have a lot of spare feats. The forms that are meant to tank usually have the ac to last a couple of rounds, for the rest 6 ac won't make much of a difference.

[gandoron]

I have a (pre-para) wild 3, undead 3, construct 2, dragon 1 build. I find only 1 focus in dragon to still create significant elem aoe damage output (though less with changes), much better than wyrmling. construct at 2 is still pretty effective, though not max. I have 3 paragon feats, thus far, wild 4, undead 4, and I took outsider shape, though it's probably useless until at least LFF1 for auras.

-G

[desocupado]

Well, I've got my two shifter builds, one with wild/humanoid/undead and antoher with wild/outsider/construct, including the relevant Paragon form focus feats, AC feats and attacks per round. That being said i'd say all shapes are useful in their own way for these areas.

Overall, I'd say that construct is the least party oriented, and offer the easiest time in hells.
Assuming you have Wild shape and humanoid shapes, per your post, I'd pick either undead or construct as a complement.

Please, note that Construct is only worth if you have a very high DC. i.e. a subrace like anarch and/or access to wisdom artifact due to the low DC modifier.

[tyranlthixis]

Anything that could "solo" the hells/abyss would instantly move up on the nerf bat target list...especially if you were able to solo mid or higher. If you do find a combo that works, please enjoy what little time you have. Having said that any one of those would be fine for soloing Hades...which has hells and abyss monsters and is designed to be solo'd.

[simpetar]

Mar 26, 2012 21:48:32 GMT tyranlthixis said:

Anything that could "solo" the hells/abyss would instantly move up on the nerf bat target list...especially if you were able to solo mid or higher. If you do find a combo that works, please enjoy what little time you have. Having said that any one of those would be fine for soloing Hades...which has hells and abyss monsters and is designed to be solo'd.

Now this statement made me laugh. Abyss has been possible to solo ever since people gained a solid grasp of its basic mob fighting mechanics, how to kill and stay alive. It is difficult to draw the line between extraordinary player skill and overpowered build, but the truth is such: there are records of Azz3 solo runs, up to and including mini bosses (that is, without a dual-boxed rez bot, with respawn risk involved). Masterful knowledge of the encounters should be (and is) rewarded by having all the loots for self, not something to be punished by nerf. If OP builds are the issue (I suppose we all know specialized sorcerers are what this is about), well, Abyss has been out for a while, and the Summon update made it easier rather than nerf. So much for "little time". It looks like the nerf bat target list is somewhat crowded, if you are pointing out problems of... how old is Abyss?

[wollstonecraft]

Pariah soloes Abyss.
Sources tell me that Pariah nerfs are coming down the pipe.

-WSCraft