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Post by kaezar on Apr 17, 2012 14:31:36 GMT
Been thihking about a new Cleric build since paragon levels came about.
In specific, I thought about dropping ESF: Trans and use the feats to build up ESF: Enchantment up to PSF.
In doubt what to do with the leftover feat. Use it and drop epic reflexes get GW IX and X or Use it, drop epic reflexes and greater ruin to get ESF: Abjuration.
Do you ppl think that with the new spellslot thing (plenty of extra level 4's and 5's) it would be enough to get GMW +15 to the tanks, or is the +16 from the iof essential?
I see it two ways, the +15 gives more flexibility, in special for tanks with large weapons (can't double wield to get iof in 2 weapons at a time), but depending on what +16 is required, it may make boss fights a bit hard.
Opinions?
Take care
Kaezar
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Post by Yojimbo on Apr 17, 2012 14:54:33 GMT
I think with PSF enabling +15 GMW has made IoF less of a required epic as to if you will have enough slots I don't know.
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Post by desocupado on Apr 17, 2012 15:29:41 GMT
If I'm not mistaken (and I might be) enemies in hells have damage soak of:
+13 - regular mobs
+14 - mini bosses and paragons
+15 - bosses
Now the big question is for other areas/bosses.
Also, is there any mob just a Staffmaster can damage well? (with blackstaff's +20?)
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Post by Yojimbo on Apr 17, 2012 17:32:10 GMT
I think Bueroza have +19 Soak or maybe their weapons are +19
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Post by simpetar on Apr 18, 2012 7:57:19 GMT
Unless I am mistaken, Orthons have high soak that can be bypassed only by staffies. But regular ones can be killed quite fast and nobody really wants to stand in melee range of a paragon for an extended period of time.
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Post by Vichya on Apr 19, 2012 7:44:50 GMT
I'm not sure how much info I'm allowed to give here but you can safely assume that "tough" mobs in Hell have a +15 weapon and have +15 soak, trash mobs have less of both and there are a few exceptions to that rule, one was mentioned by Simpetar (Orthons).
Other end game areas have slightly different soak/weapon enhancements but from what I know a +15 weapon is enough for most of the end game mobs.
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Post by kaezar on Apr 20, 2012 11:23:26 GMT
I wasn't worried about pit fiends and the like, with possibly the exceptions of elites. By testing on the arena I pretty much know all the tough critters' DR can either be bypassed with +15 or require +20.
I am, though, worried about elites and bosses. E.G. Can asmo's DR be bypassed with +15? Meph's? Demogorgon's? Obox-ob? What about Abyss bosses as princes? Granted, abyss bosses usually are taken off by caster AoE, not melee, but still...
And what about Abyss Elites? Elite marilith? Elite Balor?
Take care
Kaezar
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Post by Vichya on Apr 20, 2012 11:58:44 GMT
As far as I know +15 is enough for all hell mobs, including elites, minis and bosses except for very very few special mobs that require +16 and one that requires +20.
Elysium and Abyss have more enemies for which you need +16, but the standard mobs like Marilith, Balors and so one require +15 even as Elites.
Also some Abyss bosses are far easier to take down by tanks, Demogorgon for instance. He has no conceal and can be critted.
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Post by tyranlthixis on Apr 20, 2012 15:47:15 GMT
I don't see any reason to invest in transmutation as a cleric. +15 virtually eliminates the "need" for better gmw for your party. In the few situations where you'd actually "need" +16 (if there are any) you could just take a war chanter along. In the mean time transmutation provides virtually no spells to boost (trans spell generally don't "gain" anything from having points in focus) AND leads to one of the single weakest/useless paragon spell (Paragon Transmutation - Tempered Arms) in the entire mod. Prior to paragon levels there was a strong choice between abjuration with Aegis/increased defensive spell power and the stand alone IoF Epic. Now with +15 available the scales have completely tipped away from Trans. Abjuration seems to be the way to go now.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Apr 20, 2012 16:41:18 GMT
Wait, what? IOF isn't required? Am shocked  Am also to be honest amazed you think Tempered Arms is so weak. With so many runs now having Demi iterations in them with enough Demi's to bring on healing mobs I'd say that epic was one of the better ones. It may be somewhat situational but it's certainly not weak. I can think of a couple of runs where it would be awesome to have Tempered Arms. Especially as at present at least one of those runs has a mob that is healed by magic and only a different Epic Spell can be used to kill it or the tanks have to beat it to death with plain shop weaps. Cata |
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Post by tyranlthixis on Apr 20, 2012 17:21:10 GMT
It doesn't do a single things for your party that careful weapon swapping and spells selection does not do. It a sense it rewards laziness and doesn't add an inherent power to your party...unless you play with tons of summons or equally mindless players. Neither of which sounds like very much fun to me. I'll pass  |
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Apr 20, 2012 18:32:21 GMT
It doesn't do a single things for your party that careful weapon swapping and spells selection does not do. It a sense it rewards laziness and doesn't add an inherent power to your party...unless you play with tons of summons or equally mindless players. Neither of which sounds like very much fun to me. I'll pass Lolz, sorry I thought not having to swap weapons was the point, silly me. Rewards lazyness? Um does your Druid have Shunt? Ever used DOM in Abo and some other areas? Ever used Area Mord spawning tactics? Ever used UUU since PT2 was added? Do your casters have Silent Spell or u rely on the ring or HMR in Nessus? Your casters use the Asmo boots or the Amni ring? Ever used Greater Ruin? Damn you are right you aren't a fan of encouraging idleness at all Cata |
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Post by tyranlthixis on Apr 20, 2012 23:42:37 GMT
Cata those are not fair comparisons. Weapon swapping is not just about not healing it is about HITTING with weapon that has better damage types. That is why it is lazy.. You shouldn't be hitting with a weapon that heals in the first place. I'm glad you like it but the majority of players are not going to invest 2 feats to gain that spell and an extra use of IoF.
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Post by bazukar on Apr 21, 2012 7:06:52 GMT
Actually this info is already out there. In one of my more productive troll threads it was stated by one of the staff members that in hells/abyss almost, if not all regular creatures have +14 soak, minis have +15, and bosses +16 soak. Paragon level doesn't affect the soak, and there are some exceptions, like orthon mentioned above.
IoF was never "needed" but in a melee heavy party a boss can be a heck of a lot more difficult if you have to deal with its soak.
In response to the OP, that's a tough call. I'm assuming the PSF enchant is for rebuke? And as painful as I find it to be saying this, it might be worth it to drop ruin and go for abjuration for the banish goodness. I hear that's gonna be in demand :-P
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Post by Vichya on Apr 21, 2012 7:11:17 GMT
[...] it was stated by one of the staff members that in hells/abyss almost, if not all regular creatures have +14 soak, minis have +15, and bosses +16 soak. This info is wrong. |
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