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Post by Raj on Apr 21, 2012 9:23:54 GMT
Wait, what? IOF isn't required? Am shocked Just to derail the topic a bit, being some time I don't trade blows with Cata on the board... 1) Cata took it, so it's a bad spell; that shall ends the discussion but let go on. 2) A lot of forum builds take it; forum builds usually suck, are posted just to show the gear they use and how much dmg they deal to test monkeys, then are updated once every 5 years only to prove somebody dragged them to demi once more so that shall ends the discussion as well but let elaborate a bit. 3) The game evolves so what is required one day can no longer be the day after, we have to accept it and reincarnation is there to keep builds updated; if you had no iof/ruin 3+ years ago and people were mocking you they were right, you didn't become right all of a sudden now that those are optional/not feat-effective. When Hells first came out the only sources of gmw higher than +14 were IoF and blackstaff, plus some (lame, uncraftable) +15 weapons that were distributed on various layers; big guys had +15 dr so IoF really added a lot to melee builds, so much it was considered a must have on clerics. For a while pariahs alleviated a bit the need for it, then most pariahs realized trans was a sad school to specialize into; anyway, more enhancement sources have been added, such as toyshop gems, a lot of craftable +15 weapons, +15 (just ab, but enough to bypass soak) clang for paladins, while IoF was easy enough to fit on some slingers/battleclerics/turners builds, plus the rare warchanter. It already was a luxury for caster clerics. Now we have many bards and some mages going for paragon ench (with A LOT of lvl 3-4 slots), if you see a pariah it now has transmutation as well, plus most of the direct dmg on big critters comes from the right ele/exo types on crafted weapons (hence the need to swap to the right weapon, relying on 5 minutes of temptered arms works only in very noob/undergeared/cata parties): asking the cleric to rest more than once to IoF the whole party weapon arsenal only works at start of the run, gmw is more flexible. Rebuke is a nice spell to be able to cast effectively on cleric/turner as well, and for battle clerics the paragon ench is intriguing; trans focii offer next to nothing, so until some good transmutation spell is added to the cleric repertoire I'll avoid wasting feats on a luxury epic (and wasting 5 feats on a 2x luxury epic + a idiot paragon spell is out of question as well). I can think of a couple of runs where it would be awesome to have Tempered Arms. Especially as at present at least one of those runs has a mob that is healed by magic and only a different Epic Spell can be used to kill it or the tanks have to beat it to death with plain shop weaps. Abo2 without a arcane with necro? That really sounds like a Cata party. Seriously, does it ever happen that a party goes to abo2 and can't find a proper mage? Flux slimes are a bad example in general (and a cool monster idea but with a too easy workaround + a too harsh penality for not having the right spell on hand, they just make a certain class ''required'', if you want to do the run in a reasonable time, but that's another rant). Zio2 and Shed with elec dmg being overall good but healing a quantity of mobs are better examples, still I think 5 minutes are too short and tanks shall just try to look at the screen when they play and plan accordingly. Asking you too much i know I still like you GM!
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Post by desocupado on Apr 21, 2012 11:49:05 GMT
I find Pariah, Bard and Sorcerer better users of GMW than a Cleric as they can use their respective spell school (Transmutation/Enchantment) much better.
If anything, Transmutation Epic/Paragon spells offers Clerics slacking (both are fire and forget spells). If I'm not mistaken all slackers out there would be happy if the paragon version lasted longer (counter balanced by being stuck on the current weapon) Alternatively a one or two spells could use both transmutation and it's original school for extra effects would make it more attractive (with reduced effects or DC). Energy Immunity comes to mind.
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Post by adamantortoise on Apr 21, 2012 12:37:15 GMT
Can any dev comment on how Tempered Arms really work?
I mean, for healing creatures, they usually have a 0% immunity to their healing elemental, so that they would maximize the healing from any single hit on them. So... * If tempered arms just make them immune to the elemental by giving 100% immunity or reducing to 0 all incoming damage, then it's worthless as a paragon epic and should ban all clerics that take it.
* If, and only if, tempered arms make them receive damage from that 0% elemental, then it is awesome, and together with x2 Iof MUCH better than enchantment and abjuration foci.
Remember that harder areas are coming, and I have a guess that +16 soak will be much common there.
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Post by bazukar on Apr 21, 2012 12:49:45 GMT
[...] it was stated by one of the staff members that in hells/abyss almost, if not all regular creatures have +14 soak, minis have +15, and bosses +16 soak. This info is wrong. Bad Were Elites' reduction and soak does not increase. Johnny is right about the soak levels though. Regular monsters have +14/XX, minibosses have +15/XX and Bosses have +16/XX, except Orthon paragons, which have +20/60. Also, monk gloves were initially auto-keened because of the gloves without keen out there, as an incentive to go pure; it still remains so. Additionally, the bonus to enhancement was created for purposes of damage, since Attack Bonus bypasses soak and most gloves have it. Indeed, even Ki Strike will allow the bypassing of a monster's soak. Ssithrak Gloves have +16 AB on them, so do the Dis and Stygia gloves. MoAD, Toyshop, Beholder's, Dulvoroth, Locathah all have +14, and Elysium has +15.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Apr 21, 2012 12:58:35 GMT
Cata those are not fair comparisons. Weapon swapping is not just about not healing it is about HITTING with weapon that has better damage types. That is why it is lazy.. You shouldn't be hitting with a weapon that heals in the first place. I'm glad you like it but the majority of players are not going to invest 2 feats to gain that spell and an extra use of IoF. Lol yeah they probably aren't fair comparison, but they DO promote laziyness in varying degrees in players. That was all I was trying to point out. As for liking it, well actually I have to admit my Battle Cleric has the one that prevents slagging. I didn't take this on either Cleric, my Caster Cleric does have IOF so if I can fit it in I may well take it but only cause my Cleric is level 75 and reincing it can wait Besides, waiting to see what Elder Evils brings is probably more sensible than a reinc right now. As for you Raj, for the first part of my comments you quoted, I'm guessing Sarcasm is something strange to you? I mean Tyran obviously got it since he completely ignored that comment and just commented on the part of my post that was worth commenting on As for the rest of your post, that being the small bit at the end where you actually say something of worth.... Yeah 5 mins is probably too little, have to be honest and admit hadn't worked out the duration, and Abo without Arcane? Never said that, but an alternative to refusing Mages entry to Abo cause they don't have DOM would be nice....and yes before you start spouting more drivel about my chars my Mage does have DOM, am just saying it would be nice not to have to rely on it. Sure tanks can beat em to death, but obviously I'm the only one with enough stupidity to try it, cause you know, Raj said so..... Cata [EDIT: And cut the GM crap please, the person that calls me that does so cause she likes to RP as much as possible, she gets away with it cause asking her to stop doesn't work, not cause I actually want or insist on her doing it, I'd much rather she didn't. It stands for Guild Master since I'm her Guild Leader, sorry to disappoint but you lack the qualities I look for in a guild member so I would never be your GM ]
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Post by Raj on Apr 21, 2012 14:09:00 GMT
But I mean Goldmember !
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Apr 21, 2012 14:14:44 GMT
Lmfao Cata
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