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Post by Michael Buble on Jun 7, 2012 21:59:25 GMT
Seems to me the gauntlet has been thrown down when I read this quote: "With the current spell upgrades to Pariah spells a build to meet those requirements cannot be accomplished?"
I'm proposing a thread to talk about the Pariah.
Let's not rehash and say it used to own the server, it was a Sorc with HP Soak and spell pen wazoo monster. Let's be non-negative.
I know there is always a little competition within guilds and players to have great builds private but in the end a playable class helps everyone. So I'd like to hear some input about how we can make this a viable class. And let's not handcuff it to the Open Subby build level. Let's talk what will work and if possible we can tailor it to an open subby if it can be.
The most recent version was the Maelephant BUR version. Since many were playing that, and likely still have one in a vault can we toss around some ideas to make it a playable class?
I'll start a bit. I've been playing mine as a rebuilt more Sorc levels with Trans Focus. So it only has 2 rages. Not the best of scenarios. You could garner rage gear but that's taking away spell slots.
Also the Stoning (via the polymorph) is a decent feature but the area effect is not all that big. I think it could be larger to garner effectiveness.
The positive damage polymorph is a good melee based mob attack especially if you have a tank in front of you soaking, but it's similar in range available to the stoning.
The regen is still fairly good so I'm glad to see that stay.
Can we talk about some of the good points the new build brings, and how it might be tweaked a bit? Obviously as a stoning monster that uses damage spells to kill it's great but in 2 mobs it has to rest.
Let's discuss!
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Post by wollstonecraft on Jun 8, 2012 6:03:42 GMT
My question here is: how playable are Pariahs in Abyss, Ely, and Abos? In Hells, the new Pariah is perfectly playable, even useful, maybe even fun.
The build I'm using is still a 20/20 barb CC. With Trans, Evoc, and Illusion foci, most of the important arcane jobs are covered. While raging, SP on Trans spells should reach 76 by lvl78, 72 on Evoc/ Illus. Trans DCs should reach 63 by lvl78 with a sorc ego. That's an FTS DC of 68.
My spell choices aren't perfect. Having only 3 spells at levels 6 to 9 makes choices tricky. I gave up Freezing Sphere for Polar Ray since all the important spells are 6th level. I took Mass Haste instead. I also took Vitriolic Sphere (unfocussed) since I had no good choice of acid damage, though I also have Corrosive Grasp. I have no Meteor Swarm, but made room for BB9, Weird, and Shapechange.
Shapechange's AoE stone is pretty cool and the DC is very useable. While I might agree that the AoE is a bit small, I think it is considered a "large" AoE. Any bigger might be too much. The mass stoneskin is nice. I never use the KD effect. I think the check is 90. I havent seen a use for the mass STF. I dont use the Pos damage. I like to save uses for stoning.
Overall, Pariah is a decent replacement mage when you cant find one. As a crowd-controller it's excellent. As a damage mage, it's pretty good too. And, they are still very stable.
Outside of Hells though, I can't speak to their performance.
-WSCraft
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Post by MurphysLawAgain on Jun 8, 2012 8:28:46 GMT
The reworked Pariahs are not as powerful as the older one - naturally. But it is still effective and fun to play. When I reincarnated my Pariah after the changes I didn't make a huge change to the "standard" build. Its still a Gnome Maelephant 20 / 20 Barbarian Control Class character. In order to make this work you need to have 2 schools - and your mad if one is not Transmutation. I took Necro as my other and maxed Spell Penetration. This gives it:
1) Physical Damage from Flensing (slash), Reverse Gravity (bludgeon) and Bigby 8's (Bludgeon) with startling spell pen. Having two damage types also helps a great deal, especially with Reverse Gravity's non loot breaking and flatfooting properties. 2) Crowd control from Stoning both single target and area and Temporal Stasis. All have the uber Spell Pen. While Stasis is often not sensational there have been times when being able to control a high grade paragon nasty or other problem child has been useful. It would be even better if other players could see at a glance that their target was in stasis and therefore shouldn't be attacked. 3) Instakill and Neg damage from FoD's (wears the AOE plate), Energy Drain (who wouldnt want more caster levels and a way to kill some nasty Abyss mobs), Enervate to inflict vulns, Neg Burst for the weakening effect. Dont overlook Disintegrate which Pariahs can now cast. 4) Handy and unique party buffs. Magic Weapon is great in the abyss, partywide Greater Stoneskin should not be underestimated as a free soak source for tanks and pets (especially squishy ones). 5) A very powerful Bestow Curse to drop SR for other casters and damage or kill some mobs.
--edit to clarify a couple of things--
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Post by fallenwizard on Jun 9, 2012 16:58:22 GMT
I didnt have stoning on pariah and I still dont have it. Maelephant still is the dominant race for pariah.
I turned my pariah into 34/6, although, 32/8 might work better, but I wanted to try out rebuke, which is nice, but lacking ench focuses its DC is a bit low'ish - lowish as it kinda needs a bard curse or other save drops to have good odds to get kills.
Difference of 34/6 (or 32/8) vs 20/20 is basicly 4 feats+epic/paragon spells/extra spell lvl 1-7(6) vs +2 dc from 4 higher con. In other words, 34/6 has as many spell focus feats to use as old pariah had, the extra feats can directly be converted into spell penetrations
Main differences of 34/6 to 20/20 in playing is - not so the low amount of rages, but more so lower defence - low(ish) discepline, 4 less str which means you end up KD'd more often than used to, less hp and (very slightly) less physical immunity - overall quite notable in abyss.
The number of rages over 2 are usually only needed if 1) you die or 2) party stops after every spawn. In a smooth run 2 rages is enough for a map by what you're also likely out of spells aswell, or very close. Not to mention that you're not as reliable on rages anymore since you still have 68(70 after lvl 63) SP +2 when raging, so you can live without rages.
What I changed on pariah from my (now deleted) posted build spellwise, with the extra lvl 1-7 spells that 34 sorc level gives was: lvl 7 - rebuke, as said, unfocused not godlike, but still effective when enemies gets debuffed lvl 6 - disint, has few targets even in abyss, but mainly picked up for random hell runs that I might do lvl 5 flensing - new damage type had to be taken lvl 4 - bestow curse, now SR drops are more important since no longer uber SP so this was also pretty much mandatory spell lvl 3 - picked up GMW since taking more trans focuses at paragon levels lvl 2 - melf's acid arrow lvl 1 - cant remember, something likely never to be used.
Feat wise I still believe in illu/necro/evoc(with added trans at paragons) as a build, for paragon spell evocation for karsus is just too good to be passed on.
I'm not saying a pure trans focused pariah is bad idea, but other than hells, trans spells just arent that great.
Now comparing 34/6 vs a pure sorc -When raging, the SP is same (70 / 72 at lvl 63) -base DC is same (+1 con vs cha, but free channel), but max DC +1 since can stack 3 ED vs just 2 on sorc -Couple feats less, but gets autostills for free for more defencive style -Pariah gets extra SP for trans spells Overally very similar, few focus feats vs couple defence feats.
Anyways, as I said in other thread, Pariah is still very very strong class, just not as strong as it used to be, which took away my motivation to play it thesedays, but as Tyr mentioned recently aswell, people who make pariahs 1 year from now, who has no memories/knowledge of old pariah, it'll most likely be very refreshing and joyful quasi to try out.
Ps. I think 20/20 could use some boost, aka more trans spells. Since you're so limited to trans + 1 focus (most likely evoc for damage), means you'll have to be able to take adventage of that uber SP of trans spells (and DC too). However, 20/20 can still be used as fairly decent tool to get to 2-3 demi iteration in hells by spamming stoning and disint, then at higher demi reinc into 34/6 (or 32/8) for more universal build for abyss/ely etc.
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Post by aderwyn on Jun 11, 2012 15:11:29 GMT
I run a pariah. She had just gotten to Hells when the changes were made, so I don't have a point of comparison as to how things were before, but I will say that I think she's a serviceable party member. I used Cata's build from the forums (Evo/Illusion/Trans), but have made a number of changes to the spells to focus on damage or more trans spells (most notably dropping weird at level 9 in favor of shapechange) and have gone the route of paragon spell focuses and more Con in paragon levels.
Shapechange is great. I toss the mass flesh to stone at the beginning of a spawn while I figure out what my priority targets are, then move on to more specialized lower level spells.
I didn't always like the Pariah. To be honest, until she was Demi I really hated the build. It was hard to get spells to land, and the limited spell slots compounded the problem. At 1x and with a few paragon levels, my opinion completely changed. I am very grateful my friends bugged me to keep trying and taking her on runs. I think that the key here is to look at it as a 80 build, not just a 60 build. Pariahs more than other casters really seem to me to come into their own in paragon levels.
I love the pariah. There's always something I can cast, and I can play it a number of different ways depending on my mood and what the party needs. If I'm in a party that's a bit squishy, I can make statue gardens. If we lack damage, I can toss Damage spells.
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