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Post by axis16666 on Jul 13, 2012 4:06:16 GMT
Sorry I brought it up folks
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Post by vorshlumpf on Jul 13, 2012 8:04:49 GMT
Hah! I bet you are. I'm not, though. This continues to be very educational.
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Post by tomaan on Jul 13, 2012 11:48:20 GMT
=== OK I'll bite....what does criminal activity have to do with "democratic ideals" or politic insurrection?
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Post by tomaan on Jul 13, 2012 11:52:59 GMT
Sorry I brought it up folks What's that they say about politics and religion?
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Post by Klipkap on Jul 13, 2012 13:48:04 GMT
Permit me to throw a pebble into the large pond that separates us. I would like to add another difference between the here-and-now main US parties from a foreign perspective. It concerns the results of a poll published last month. 63% of Republicans believe that at the time of the 2003 invasion, Iraq had WMDs. Only (!) 15% of democrats hold this view.
Now that scares the crap out of me!!
And it doesn't get better. In March Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney called Russia "without question our number one geopolitical foe".
RUN people; ..... RUUUUUUNNN
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Post by AuBricker on Jul 13, 2012 16:13:53 GMT
I'll add another comment or two on real differences between the two parties in the upcoming election.
Republicans are fighting tooth and nail to prevent my gay friends from being treating with any human decency. Not only are they fighting recognition of same-sex unions, Republican-sponsored laws deny gay men and women the right to even visit their dying mates in hospitals. Democrats are generally, in most cases, more humane.
Republicans are less concerned about the environment and endangered species as a rule. Consider, for example, the indifference of GOP leaders to the polar bear. Democratic politicians are more receptive to pro-environmental messages.
Most Republican deny climate change science, despite the fact that 16 of the past 17 years have been the hottest on record. North Carolina has even gone so far as to pass legislation requiring state agencies to record rising ocean levels at a rate no higher than that predicted by a straight linear graph predicated on data compiled over a century ago. (I am reminded of the stories of Kind Canute ordering the tides to recede.) Democrats, as a rule, are more receptive to science.
Republicans find military spending more addictive than junkies crave heroin. The US spends more on its military than does the rest of the world combined, and most of the lesser major powers are close allies. Yet Republican candidates universally condemn Democrats for being "soft on defense," and vow to even further increase military spending while reducing funding for education, the environment, and the nation's needy.
Republicans have shown a strange devotion to Objectivism, the brainchild of Ayn Rand, which holds selfishness as a virtue. Rand considered mercy and charity a sign of weaknesses. Oddly, her views are exceptionally popular among certain right-wing Christians, notwithstanding the fact that Rand considered Christianity a religion fit only for weaklings. I know of no Democratic leaders who cite Rand when promoting social polity.
Come, Overdriver, do you still maintain no differences exist between the parties?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 20:29:44 GMT
I'll add another comment or two on real differences between the two parties in the upcoming election. Republicans are fighting tooth and nail to prevent my gay friends from being treating with any human decency. Not only are they fighting recognition of same-sex unions, Republican-sponsored laws deny gay men and women the right to even visit their dying mates in hospitals. Democrats are generally, in most cases, more humane. Republicans are less concerned about the environment and endangered species as a rule. Consider, for example, the indifference of GOP leaders to the polar bear. Democratic politicians are more receptive to pro-environmental messages. Most Republican deny climate change science, despite the fact that 16 of the past 17 years have been the hottest on record. North Carolina has even gone so far as to pass legislation requiring state agencies to record rising ocean levels at a rate no higher than that predicted by a straight linear graph predicated on data compiled over a century ago. (I am reminded of the stories of Kind Canute ordering the tides to recede.) Democrats, as a rule, are more receptive to science. Republicans find military spending more addictive than junkies crave heroin. The US spends more on its military than does the rest of the world combined, and most of the lesser major powers are close allies. Yet Republican candidates universally condemn Democrats for being "soft on defense," and vow to even further increase military spending while reducing funding for education, the environment, and the nation's needy. Republicans have shown a strange devotion to Objectivism, the brainchild of Ayn Rand, which holds selfishness as a virtue. Rand considered mercy and charity a sign of weaknesses. Oddly, her views are exceptionally popular among certain right-wing Christians, notwithstanding the fact that Rand considered Christianity a religion fit only for weaklings. I know of no Democratic leaders who cite Rand when promoting social polity. Come, Overdriver, do you still maintain no differences exist between the parties? No REAL difference exists. The only difference is in their rhetoric. The US Government is far worse of a destroyer of the environment than any corporation. I am not treating your premise of "anti-republican" as a legitimate premise by attacking democrats or even defending republicans in general. Instead I am attacking the premise its self. The worst things Bush did, he did with the backing of democrat majorities in congress (oops), and Obama has simply continued and increased the horrible policies started by Bush. No real difference between the parties exist, they have the same pay-masters, attend the same cocktail parties in the same small closed cliche of elite interlocked directorates. That is no conspiracy: as the dems talk up the social agenda you advocate and the repubs talk up the capitalist agenda that 'conservatives' advocate, both IN ACTION, push hard for the maintenance of the current corporatist system in which we live. The more enlightened liberals talk against corporatist capitalism, and the more enlightened conservatives talk against corporatist socialism. But really, it is just corporatism. It is counter the welfare and liberty of the majority of people, and it has to go. The democrat and republican candidates for President of the United States are both corporatists who simply verbally pander to their constituents.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 20:50:27 GMT
=== OK I'll bite....what does criminal activity have to do with "democratic ideals" or politic insurrection? Chicago is a well-known incredibly corrupt, democrat stronghold- Obamas Chief of Staff (Rahm Emanuel) was installed as Mayor of Chicago in 2011. Prior to that, Chicago was run by the Daley monarchy . The apparent heir to be the next Mayor of Chicago and Boss of the Chicago Democratic Machine, William M. Daley, was appointed by Obama to be his new Chief of Staff, replacing Rahm Emanuel. (see what they did there lmao) Obama himself is a result of the self-same political machine, as is any politician that comes out of the Cook County (Chicago) area. So my comment and news link was a little jab, with some sarcasm including a pun. Those "democratic principles" being extreme corruption garbed in left-wing trappings. The point was: we have violence already in this f'd up system. Pointless violence. It is a natural result. So if there is going to be violence anyways, it might as well be towards a productive ends.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 20:59:00 GMT
Permit me to throw a pebble into the large pond that separates us. I would like to add another difference between the here-and-now main US parties from a foreign perspective. It concerns the results of a poll published last month. 63% of Republicans believe that at the time of the 2003 invasion, Iraq had WMDs. Only (!) 15% of democrats hold this view. Now that scares the crap out of me!! And it doesn't get better. In March Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney called Russia "without question our number one geopolitical foe". RUN people; ..... RUUUUUUNNN Bear in mind that in 2003 we (the US) were still reeling psychologically from the blow that was 9/11, and (especially the republicans) were looking to The President for guidance, leadership and some sense of what is going on in the world and the place we as a Nation would have in it. The Bush catastrophe is one major reason why the republicans really dramatically became fragmented as a group, with some gravitating towards more libertarian constitutionalist ideology and groups, others giving up entirely, and the rest clinging even more blindly and tightly to the establishment gop. Romney is just another empty suit, a white Obama who will say the opposite of what Obama says while doing almost exactly the same things.
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Post by AuBricker on Jul 13, 2012 22:14:57 GMT
Overdriver,
Ah yes, you are correct. The Republicans and the Democrats are exactly the same -- well, unless you are gay, female, Latino, African-American, a public school student, adversely affected by climate change, a public servant, concerned about military spending, dependent upon public transportation, afflicted with a preexisting medical condition, or a non-Christian -- in other words, no one we could possibly know.
So we should all ignore candidates for public office because they are all clones, dig a fallout shelter in the back yard, and pray for massive violence with lots of needless deaths -- presumably of young people we don't care about -- because then we will have all sorts of wonderful rights.
I do have one question you might be able to answer. What rights now lacking will be ushered in by this revolution you anticipate?
Oh, as I once was an educator, I feel compelled to express my disdain for flawed analogies. Please do better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2012 21:27:55 GMT
Overdriver, Ah yes, you are correct. The Republicans and the Democrats are exactly the same -- well, unless you are gay, female, Latino, African-American, a public school student, adversely affected by climate change, a public servant, concerned about military spending, dependent upon public transportation, afflicted with a preexisting medical condition, or a non-Christian -- in other words, no one we could possibly know. Left wing trappings as I said and as a former indoctrinator...err..educator, you should know to actually respond with substance than to just repeat yourself. If nothing else could be gleaned from my series of posts here, at least my study an in-depth observation of the individual candidates and system(s) in which they operate is demonstrated. HARDLY IGNORING them. No, IGNORING these clowns means simply voting stupidly for them because they say what you want to hear (trappings), and not because you actually understand who they are as politicians. The only right that matters and is NATURAL to humans everywhere being the right to define liberty as one so chooses, and to practice that liberty without interference, so long as one do not infringe on others in their practice as well. It is real simple. That right is not lacking because Government can neither give nor take away rights natural to man. Government can only infringe on those rights or stay out of the way. What I want is simply for Government to stop interfering and take their proper role of a self-limiting entity designed to ensure that we do not infringe on the liberty of each other.
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Post by AuBricker on Jul 15, 2012 22:45:39 GMT
Overdriver,
In short, that is bullshit.
Not only are gay people allowed not to marry, they are often denied the right to visit a dying lover in the hospital. I've seen public schools so starved of money, they are unable to afford toilet paper in student restrooms. 30 million human beings will lose medical coverage if Romney succeeds in reversing ACA; millions more will lose coverage as a result of annual and lifetime caps or pre-existing conditions. Even larger numbers of poor children will go to bed wracked with pain from hunger should the GOP accomplish their goal of diverting ever more billions to military spending.
But, as you say, these are merely "trappings." Your devotion to an ideology which renders you indifferent to the suffering of so many is a puzzle to me, especially as you seem unable to clearly articulate it.
I ask again, what rights are you lacking justifies other people's children, parents, spouses, and siblings to endure violence and death. Be specific. Claiming some higher understanding are simply rambling some non-sense about "natural rights" doesn't work.
I've never been a strong proponent of Hobbes, but he was a keen observer of human nature. You could benefit for a cursorily examination of his views.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2012 20:53:31 GMT
Bricker- Screw all this. Your my gaming buddy, a classy guy to deal with in-game, and I like you, so I am not gonna keep arguing with ya here over politics. Peace bro, and see ya in game.
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Post by AuBricker on Jul 16, 2012 21:31:24 GMT
Overbricker,
I concur. Thanks for your generous words.
For any who may have been following this thread, Overdriver has always been a great player and guildie as well as all-around great guy. Any political differences aside, I respect his ethics and directness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 0:34:32 GMT
^^^ Totally reciprocal.
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