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Post by arek on Jul 10, 2012 0:25:30 GMT
This stormlord is one I cooked up after reading a Battle Druid build in the Druid build forums. The original build was STR-based, with a lowish AB and no battledruid bonuses.
This build is still STR-based, and still has a lowish AB, but now gets the battledruid bonuses. I will post 2 versions of this build: 1 to level with and one to reincarnate to at Level 55+ (both builds will be planned out to 60). The reason for this is simple: The leveling build's AB at 60 is likely to be too low even for Hells (92), and the reinc build's AB will be very low until it gets to Level 55 AND eats its Dex artifact, since it won't have 30 base dex until then.
For weapons: When leveling, pick any non-exotic finessable weapon, preferably something you already have 20/29/35/DB versions of on hand. When reincarnating, you get Exotic weapon proficiency, which allows you the use of either the Katana or the BSword.
Here are the builds:
Race/Subrace: Half-Elf/Zenythri
Class Spread: 35 Druid, 4 Paladin, 1 Monk
Starting Stats (before/after subrace): STR: 15/19 DEX: 14/18 CON: 12/12 WIS: 14/18 INT: 14/14 CHA: 8/8
Leveling Stats: All Pre-LL points into DEX, all LL points into STR.
[gsheet]0ArvN5KxFV56ndHQzNElPcGozTG5CcFpSSFBmOGpWQmc[/gsheet]
Skills: Max Craft Armor and Craft Weapon on all levels. At L40 (your monk level), also max Discipline and Listen, and grab 40 Tumble. During LLs, max Discipline (after LSA), CW, CA, and Listen (after LSA). At 60, also max Parry and Concentration, then dump the rest of your points into Spellcraft.
A note on spell foci: I took transmutation during the leveling process because I hate having to hunt for transmutation tomes, and I wanted Shunt. You can take whatever focus you want to ESF during leveling, and get one more ESF from a book later. Illusion is nice for +20 Natural AC, Transmutation for Shunt, and/or Evocation for Immute and (eventually) Burn the Veil. Most of the others are better left to the casters. :-)
A note about this build: The reinc version of this build assumes that you're reincarnating at Level 55+, and that you have a dex artifact either applied or waiting. Before that, I recommend sticking to the leveling build, or whatever druid you're reincarnating from, since you won't get your battledruid specials without it.
Speaking of Artifacts, if you have and want to use a STR artifact on this, you can do it by simply taking 2 more dex when leveling (on the reinc version of the build). In that case, I recommend either sticking with simple/martial weaponry and picking up blind-fight instead of WP: Exotic, or using a blind-fight pandect.
As for the race, It's Zeny because I don't have Thunderborn. If you have and want to use Thunderborn, Just take 2 more STR instead of 2 DEX when leveling, and you're all set.
On Paragon levels: There's a reason I recommend Spellcraft in LLs: Greater Ruin. The only way this build can get GR is to take it in Paragon Levels. I recommend getting it at level 66 if you want it, taking PWF at level 63. If you don't want GR, just dump Heal instead of Spellcraft, and once Heal is maxed, dump the rest of your PL points into either Discipline or Parry (or a mix of the 2) to offset penalties there. If you took Spellcraft for GR, continue putting points in Spellcraft until you get to 50 ranks, then either put the remaining points in Disc/Parry to offset penalties or dump them into Heal.
Here's what I envision my Paragon feats looking like: - Paragon Weapon Focus - Greater Ruin - Legendary Spell Focus - Paragon Spell Focus - Paragon Spell Knowledge - Paragon Survival (waterbreathing)
The LSF/PSF/PSK feats are to get me a single PSpell, which will be the Evocation PSpell if I take evo instead of trans later (likely), or the Illusion PSpell otherwise (Yes, I know that BTV is currently unimplemented, but both immute and BTV will make sense for a tank).
--Arek
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Post by arek on Jul 23, 2012 3:27:47 GMT
An update: I'm now using a build similar to the reinc build above, but with some changes made to allow me to take Blackguard instead of Paladin, and also taking Illusion instead of Trans when leveling (getting Evocation from a book). Doing this increases your defensive ability (by freeing up a legendary feat for EMA), but removes your ability to get LSA: Listen. Here's what you do:
Go Human/Zeny instead of Half-Elf/Zeny Take Power Attack as your Human feat Take Cleave instead of WP: Exotic and substitute the simple or martial weapon of your choice for Katana. As an added bonus, grab 26 spellcraft in LLs, and take Epic Mage Armor in place of LSA: Listen.
Offensively, this build gets 93 AB when fully buffed with 120+ Craft Armor (get a good Orudin's Oath amulet!), with up to 93 (103 with ESF) Listen.
Defensively, with a Large Shield it gets 136 AC and Epic Dodge. If you can get a good small shield with +16 AC on it, you can get up to 137 AC. Neither assumes you have Girding. For conceal, ask for displacement - you really do want veil on this for the extra AC, and immute is an epic that I consider to be a must-have, so you don't get Shroud. You could pick it up in Paragon Levels, but that removes your ability to get a PSpell, which is harsh - I'd prefer to get BTV, personally.
--Arek
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Post by arek on Jan 3, 2015 9:57:11 GMT
For Li'l Rose: Unfortunaely, I don't think I've ever posted my "modern" version of this. Here's the output of the command !list levels - which shows what feats I've taken on the build (automatic feats removed except for subby bonus feats, and LL/PL feats re-ordered and put in sections). This is also using Thunderborn, not Zenythri, so some things will be a bit different with Zeny. [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Jan 03 02:48:16] [Server] You have taken the following levels: 1 Druid - Bullheaded - Great Dexterity I (free with Thunderborn) - Great Dexterity II (free with Thunderborn)
2 Paladin
3 Paladin - Spell Focus (Evocation)
4 Paladin (Dexterity +1)
5 Paladin
6 Druid - Weapon Focus (morningstar)
7 Druid
8 Druid (Dexterity +1)
9 Druid - Spell Focus (Illusion)
10 Druid
11 Druid
12 Druid (Strength +1) - Greater Weapon Focus (morningstar)
13 Druid
14 Druid
15 Druid - Improved Critical (morningstar)
16 Druid (Strength +1)
17 Druid
18 Druid - Metamagic (Extend Spell)
19 Druid
20 Druid (Strength +1)
21 Druid - Epic Weapon Focus (morningstar)
22 Druid
23 Druid
24 Druid (Strength +1) - Epic Prowess
25 Druid
26 Druid
27 Druid Concentration +30, Spellcraft +26 - Great Strength I
28 Druid (Strength +1) - Great Wisdom I
29 Druid
30 Druid - Great Strength II
31 Druid
32 Druid (Strength +1) - Greater Spell Focus (Evocation)
33 Druid - Great Strength III
34 Druid
35 Druid
36 Druid (Strength +1) - Epic Spell Focus (Evocation) - Great Strength IV
37 Druid
38 Druid
39 Druid - Great Strength V
40 Monk (Strength +1) Tumble +40 - Cleave
Feats not associated with any level: Epic Spell Focus (Conjuration) - From a Tome of Ancient Lore.
Legendary Skill Affinity (Discipline) Legendary Weapon Focus (morningstar) Legendary Skill Affinity (Listen) Greater Spell Focus (Illusion) Epic Spell Focus (Illusion) Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor [0/1] Epic Spell: Greater Ruin [0/1]
Paragon Weapon Focus (morningstar) Great Strength VI Great Strength VII Legendary Spell Focus (Conjuration) Paragon Spell Focus (Conjuration) Paragon Spell Knowledge (Conjuration)
Stripped Naked, her ability scores are as follows: STR: 48 DEX: 30 CON: 18 INT: 20 WIS: 24 CHA: 13 Looks like my final 2 ability scores from levels 79 and 80 will be WIS and CHA. Given that, 2x Demi, and +2 to all other abilities from Paragon Levels, her starting stats should have been as follows: STR: 15 DEX: 14 CON: 12 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 8 The build as listed uses the DEX Artifact. You can use the STR artifact instead if you have one, just take 2 more dex than noted below when leveling up. Here is the output of !list skills, with skills I took 0 ranks in removed: [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Jan 03 03:27:00] [Server] Skills: Concentration: 48 / 39 Craft Armor: 73 / 63 Craft Weapon: 73 / 63 Discipline: 87 / 63 Heal: 57 / 40 Listen: 76 / 63 Parry: 78 / 63 Spellcraft: 60 / 50 Tumble: 55 / 40
Except as noted in the output of !list levels above, all of these skills were taken in Legendary Levels, with 2 exceptions: Concentration past 30 (taken in paragon levels once I got to 50 ranks of spellcraft), and Spellcraft over 26 (dumped my extra points at 60 here, then raised it to 50 in Paragon Levels). As a nondemi half-elf Zeny, you're going to be down 8 DEX over this (2 from PLs, 4 more from Demi iterations, and 2 DEX from not having 2 Great Dexterity feats from your race), so take 8 more DEX during level-ups (basically, all but the last 2 pre-LL ability-ups should go into DEX, so that you get 30 base DEX with your dex arti. Once you start getting Demi iterations, you can reduce the amount of DEX you take in subsequent reincarnations. If you want to go Small, I recommend Gnome over Halfling so that you still have enough skill points to get all of your needed skills. Start with the following ability scores at creation (assuming Zeny): STR: 14 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 14 CHA: 8 And take 1 more STR during level-up. In Legendary Levels, replace LSA: Listen with Epic Skill Focus: Listen. For skills, drop Heal for more Spellcraft (to get your second ruin), cross-cleas listen, and keep taking it in Paragon Levels, and dump your last points, as usual, into Concentration. You may have enough points for more skills here, in which case I recommend picking Heal back up and/or dropping even more points into Concentration. Anything else not listed (that you can take) will help you much. Note that even with ESF: Listen and paragon levels gaining you 10 more base listen, you're still going to be 22 ranks lower than the max. This means that Concealment will affect you worse than other tanks. It's really late now, so I'm gonna wrap it up for now...If you have any questions, feel free to ask. -- arek
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jan 3, 2015 16:10:17 GMT
Thank you Arek. It sounds like fun build. I like a build that can tank, and do magic too.
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Post by arek on Jan 3, 2015 18:40:56 GMT
I messed up a bit on skills last night - As a gnome, make sure you at least take that 40 tumble and max listen on your Monk level. The rest of the skills you need are either already Class skills, or made class skills by using an LSA feat. If you have extra points at 40, go ahead and dump 'em into Discipline (so that lolth and immo won't give you as hard of a time), and then into any listed skill. As for what epics I have: They were chosen pretty carefully. Illusion gives you 20 natural AC from the epic, which means you can toss an AC-less amulet on and get away with it (keep a barkskin or 2 for backup if you do). Evocation grants you Immutable Force, which can be a party-saver. Conjuration gives you Shroud of Nature, which is like a super-camoflauge and taking it to the PSK level grants you Call Weaponspren, which improves both your and damage and that of any other tanks in the group. People will ask you why you don't have Shunt. The reason is that you can't fit it in without lowering your AB to unacceptable levels or giving up one of the above-mentioned epics, and Transmutation focus gives you very little benefit outside of Shunt (it has zero effect on your Aura of Balance). Also, the new build really needs to be reincarnated to - build the "leveling" build in the first post for leveling, it's still actually quite good for that. Now, a few spell pointers: First, you want most (but not all) of your weapons to have electric on them - your Shock Weapon buff provides extra damage when self-cast (make sure your party's wizard/sorc or other druid aren't casting it on you as well...and ask them not to if they do). Second, you want 6-8 *extended* Nature's Balance available (or more non-extended), which once you get 30 DEX will cast Aura of Balance instead. Also, you want at least 2-3 Storm of Vengeance slotted - at 30 DEX this becomes Storm Avatar, which is your Divine Power-type buff. Speaking of DEX...your goal is always to hit 30 DEX on the nose with your toon completely naked (ie with +0 to dex from gear, but including artifact demigod and paragon bonuses). More only wastes precious ability boosts, which should go into STR after you have 30 DEX. This is why there is a leveling build - you really can't get a high enough AB for Hells without either gimping yourself completely before then (no caster ability, and little tank ability either) or reincarnating at level 60 once you have either a DEX or STR artifact. Also for this reason, you'll want to reincarnate again once you get to about level 73 and 2x Demi, as that's when you'll have the full +6 DEX available from demi and paragon levels - and if you're reincarnating at that point, don't be afraid to hold off eating an artifact or tome ig necessary so that you can redo if you don't get that first paragon ability score point as DEX. Honestly, I wish the devs had just let you choose what to start with. Have fun and enjoy --Arek
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jan 4, 2015 16:56:43 GMT
Thanks Arek.
I reincarnated a level 26 toon for this. I used Halfling, because well, I like halflings, lol. The extra 2 dex points helps as well. I figure if I take blindfight instead of epic skill focus listen, that will give me enough skill points for everything.
For spells, I mostly put buffs, but I am wondering which spells I can use for damage. I have tried ice storm, vortex of teeth, and creeping doom. Are there any others I can use?
I'm using short sword, like you suggested, but piercing damage not great. I am wondering if there is a better weapon I could use, since I'm not using weapon finesse.
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Post by arek on Jan 4, 2015 21:47:33 GMT
For damage, you'll mostly wind up swinging your weapon around on this. That said, Creeping Doom is nice to have if you have room for it, and Vortex usually winds up doing at least some damage. Look for other spells like that if you want damage, but most of your spells are for utility or to boost your melee offense/defense/damage, not to do damage directly - your wisdom's too low for that. As for weapons, if you're feeling brave, you could try Morningstar (and no shield). This will, however, drop your AC by quite a lot (would be ~128-130 max in light armor, a bit better in robes). Otherwise, any small weapon should work. I recommend Short Sword because of the "upcoming" weapon update that will make it slashing/piercing dual-type. As a STR tank, tho, a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is a good choice, depending on where you're planning on taking the toon (bludg for hell, slash for abyss/abos). For bludgeoning, you have the Club, Light Mace, and Light Hammer, and maybe Sap (check the size - if it's tiny you lose damage). For Slashing you have the Handaxe or Sickle. Next up, Listen vs Blind-Fight: Listen gets you a lot more conceal reduction than blind-fight does - even with only the ability to dump listen on your monk level (which you'd have to not do on Halfling, btw) and ESF: Listen you'd get over 100 listen when maxed. Blind-Fight provides the equivalent of 63 listen, which is quite a difference. You won't, however, have enough skillpoints for everything you need with Halfling, and your AB is kinda borderline, so dropping listen and esf: listen for blind-fight is probably the way to go. And finally, on reincarnation: You will need to reincarnate this again once you get a DEX or STR arti (STR is a bit better, but harder to get because it drops in Aboleths) and at least level 55, unless you're already doing one of the later builds (anything other than the "leveling" build), or you won't have a high enough AB to hit much. Also, when reincarnating post-demi (which you should do for the third time at 2x and at least level 73), don't lower wisdom based on demigod iterations! There's an anti-exploit in place that will prevent you from finishing your reincarnation if you do. You might be able to get away with dropping it by a couple of points based on gains in Paragon Levels, but don't try it with demi iterations. You've been warned. --Arek
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Post by Yojimbo on Jan 5, 2015 14:17:30 GMT
I am fairly certain when you get your Paragon DEX is random when you reinc you may not get your DEX points on the same level as before and you don't get all your Paragon stats until L80 IIRC.
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Post by arek on Jan 5, 2015 18:49:53 GMT
The order is not random, only the starting point is. The order is the same as listed on your character sheet, iirc. For that reason, if you absolutely need a specific ability score for basic character functionality, you can calculate the minimum required level based on the starting point. If you're reincarnating with just Paragon Dexterity in mind, you need enough experience to stay level 73 after reincarnation. Level 74 should be enough. If you want to rely on both DEX and WIS, it's a bit harder. If DEX is your first paragon ability score, WIS will be either your third or your fourth (I forget which). Assuming it's the fourth bonus (erring for caution), this means that youll need level 77 post-reinc to get this. Given the xp penalty curve at that point, I recommend simply waiting until you're 80 to utilize both. -- arek
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Post by arek on Jan 5, 2015 19:12:46 GMT
One last note for Li'l Rose: When you reinc, if you stay Halfling, you should probably drop 2 CON for 2 INT, making your stats at creation as follows: STR: 14 DEX: 15 CON: 10 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 8 This should give enough skills for everything except Listen and perhaps Heal (remember, Halflings don't get the extra skills that gnomes, humans, and half-elves do), but will cost you some HP and a point of your Fort save. --Arek
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Post by Li'l Rose on Jan 5, 2015 20:06:56 GMT
One last note for Li'l Rose: When you reinc, if you stay Halfling, you should probably drop 2 CON for 2 INT, making your stats at creation as follows: STR: 14 DEX: 15 CON: 10 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 8 This should give enough skills for everything except Listen and perhaps Heal (remember, Halflings don't get the extra skills that gnomes, humans, and half-elves do), but will cost you some HP and a point of your Fort save. --Arek Yeah, I did do that already, but was still not sure how much skill points were needed. I calculated 6 skill points per level, with 7 skills needed. Listen would be skill 8. Maybe they will all still fit, but I haven't calculated the numbers yet.
I started with this:
STR: 14 DEX: 15 CON: 8 INT: 14 WIS: 14 CHA: 8
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Post by arek on Jan 7, 2015 16:24:56 GMT
Do you have a voice set override installed? If so, you could pretend to be a Halfling while using Gnome as your base race, using one of the Halfling voice sets (Tomi's is a great one for male, and I think Sharwyn was a halfling as well and has a pretty darned good voice set). :-) Not quite the same as actually being a Halfling, but it wouldn't require you to have your CON in the gutter (there are a few straight CON checks vs Death in the mod - and this can't reasonably afford to use a CON arty). -- arek
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Post by Twilight Semner on Jan 7, 2015 18:03:29 GMT
I say drop greater ruin altogether. Dump listen at 40. Lower spellcraft to 26. Take a couple more great strength feats and just use con arti. Like arek says, there are con vs death checks in the game. However 10 base con isn't exactly going to protect you from many of them.
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Post by Yojimbo on Jan 7, 2015 20:29:06 GMT
While my BD does have GR I will say I notice it fails far too often of course I only use it on things that a big threats and tough to probably get with it without CL59+ on it so it is certainly worth dropping for more AB, saves or an extra epic even. I find the STR BDs very difficult to manage with a almost "perfect" subrace and likely BUR tier and you usually can only get 1 to 2 epics on them I prefer my 3 Epic DEX BD w/ GR.
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Post by arek on Jan 9, 2015 15:49:58 GMT
Greater Ruin only frees up one feat. I suppose ESF: Listen/BF could be the other one, but that leaves you reliant on the VoV for enough Listen to be viable. Another thought: You're a halfling/gnome - you could just say "stuff it" and eat the CON arty with the build as-is, dropping 2 STR for 2 DEX while leveling. That loses you 1 AB, but you gain 1 AB from being small anyway, so it's pretty much a wash. Just make sure you reinc at 60 and check your AB (with Storm Avatar active) before eating a CON arty - You want it to be at least 93 (with the latest build it should be), and if it's not you don't wanna eat (and waste) a CON arty. I hope this helps... -- arekP.S. I need to double-check everything in the test chamber to make sure the build is going to work OK. I think I'll do that later today. Either way, I'll post results here.
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