Experimental Pharlan Paladin Turner build

[desocupado]

Immortal Version

Earlier this year we were discussing the possibilities of doing a full Cha BG turner BG Turning questions. I really think that a BG would be poor compared to a paladin due having lower benefits than Paladin from Charisma.
Overview of this experimental build:

• Tanking 4/10 - Passable AC with heavy armor, Bad (Dex/Con) Low Str (Base 20) Average hitpoints (900+ at 60), Good Immunities and Good Saves, Guardian Angel
  
• Dps 3/10 - Mediocre - While the physical damage is decent due (Cha mod x 1.5 + Str mod x 1.0) it gets only 5 attacks. AB is ok.
  
• Turning 4/10 : Gets Prayer, Potentially not GR Reliant (with high demi count and feats) Has -1 DC and -2 TP most of the time compared to a regular Half Celestial turner.
  
• Misc. Utility 5/10: Can turn with stun and reasonable kill chance, can breach any strippable buffs, can give divine and sonic buffs.
  

Without further ado, here's the second sketch of the Paladin turner:

Detailed overview:
Advantages:

• CL 60 (extended) Holy sword for breaching
  
• High Pos & Div (27%+) Phy (13%+) with Aura of Glory and Divine Shield
  
• Passable Str (base 20 at 60 can help - reaches 40-42 with double demihood)
  
• Turning (harder mobs might prove troublesome)
  
• Can use some smiting. Regular smite evil for extra 120 physical damage at 40+ (greater smiting deals about 500-600) (each regular smite recharges once per minute)
  
• Godlike saves (lowest at 73 at 60)
  
• Base 63 - Discipline and Parry
  

Disadvantages:

• Don't get all good feats for rapier (critical hits won't be good without rare gear/augs)
  
• Mediocre AC 125 as Immo (can get +12 in the best scenario).
  
• Divine shield produces KB (very dangerous if AC isn't optimized)
  
• Needs rare gear like: Pandect of Darkests Secrets: Blind Fight and Plate of the Holy Avenger
  
• The reduction of Turning Power if you don't have smite evil is critical against some mobs.
  

Race: Half-Elf Subrace: Pharlan
Class Paladin 40

Base Stats at 60
Str 8 +4/sub +2/feat +4/paladin +2/smite = 20
Dex 8
Con 8
Int 12
Wis 16 +4/sub +1/level
Cha 18 +4/sub +4/paladin +19/level +7/feat = 52 (same of a regular turner cleric)

Pre-epic feats
Divine might (racial bonus)
Great Strength 1-2 (racial bonus)
1 - Blooded
3 - WF: Rapier
6 - Rapier Wit
9 - Extend Spell -or - IC Rapier
12 - Extra smiting
15 - Power Attack
18 - Divine shield

Epic feats:
21-24-27-30 Great Wis 4
33-36-39 Great Cha+3

Paladin Bonus feats
23 - EWF
26 - Armor Skin
29 - Epic Prowess
32 - Planar Turning
35-38 Great Smiting 1-2

Legendary feats: - Tome spell penetration - Pandect: Blind Fight
42 - LSA tumble
45 - Good domain
48 - Domain 2/5 (Sun or Elemental would be best)
51-54-57-60 Great Cha+4 (total +7)

Paragon Feats:
Domain 3/5
Domain 4/5
Domain 5/5 - unless you don't want destruction
Free x3 either:

• Great Cha +8 -- Great Cha +9 -- Free - ESF Discipline?
  
• Planar Adaptivity 1-3
  

AB: 45+28+4+20 = 96 (at 60, with +12 and no arty)

AC: 125 (asmo gear adds +3 - Plate of holy avenger add +2 Guird adds+4 - can get +2 extra shield ac with high Cha and divine shield)
10 - base
17 - natural
8+18 - armor modifer (heavy armor)
3 - dex modifier (heavy armor)
17 - deflection
20 - dodge + haste
12 - tumble
2 - armor skin
3+14 - shield modifier (up to +16 with divine shield, when Cha hits 72)
1 - skill modifier (craft armor provides +1 to ac per 40 fully modified ranks)


Skills (2+1/int+1/half-elf):
Disciple 63
Parry 63
Tumble 60
Concentration 43
CA 26

[Deleted]

I agree paladin is a better choice for turner than blackguard, but after several demi iterations and literally millions of xp worth of playing the bg turner I can tell you the difference isn't that great. The bg turner tank wasn't at all squishy- it could tank- it just lacked in damage output. I don't see this build having much better dps. It will totally overwhelm runs like desert and db, even tia and dis, but the deeper you go the less effective the turning becomes. Not just because of hells penalties but also the larger amount of spawn with higher will saves the deeper you go.

Turning is fun, destroying much of what you turn is really fun. Few things will clear Oinos quicker. But as far as what this kind of character ads to a party, core classes or dps tanks are simply of higher value.

Aside from a novelty, to be honest, divine tanks as non-two handed weapon wielders pale in comparison to high dps barbs staffys, staff monks etc.

Figure a way to make a two-handed weapon wielding divine tank defensively viable and your onto something *cough*.

[desocupado]

Nov 12, 2012 22:49:42 GMT @overdriver said:

I agree paladin is a better choice for turner than blackguard, but after several demi iterations and literally millions of xp worth of playing the bg turner I can tell you the difference isn't that great. The bg turner tank wasn't at all squishy- it could tank- it just lacked in damage output. I don't see this build having much better dps. It will totally overwhelm runs like desert and db, even tia and dis, but the deeper you go the less effective the turning becomes. Not just because of hells penalties but also the larger amount of spawn with higher will saves the deeper you go.

Turning is fun, destroying much of what you turn is really fun. Few things will clear Oinos quicker. But as far as what this kind of character ads to a party, core classes or dps tanks are simply of higher value.

Well this guy is still a great Oinos soloer. Guardian angel FTW (i'll keep the limitations in mind)

Nov 12, 2012 22:49:42 GMT @overdriver said:

Aside from a novelty, to be honest, divine tanks as non-two handed weapon wielders pale in comparison to high dps barbs staffys, staff monks etc.

Figure a way to make a two-handed weapon wielding divine tank defensively viable and your onto something *cough*.

You are right. Nowhere I claimed this is a high dps build, it just does ok physical damage about 50-60 added physical from Str and Cha. It's still much less than a dps monster.

Making a few calculations, at double demi with +16 and Cha artifact (Cha 74 <+32>divine shield becomes +16) and CA 80+ I"d have 137 AC. That's pretty decent.

Well this build Divinely Gnome Paladin 38/Rogue 2 have a very good dps and might be thing you are looking for: +70 physical (Str and Cha) further increased by +50% for being two handed.

[desocupado]

I was seeing how this guy has been doing lately (Rechargeable smite does no good to the build)...
I think this kind of build can be optimized for Double-Demi and paragon levels (69+), assuming the Wisdom+4 can be used to pay the requisites


Race: Half-Elf Subrace: Pharlan
Class Paladin 39 Cleric 1 - Get 2 domains like Good and Elemental

Stats
Str 8 +4/sub +2/feat +4/paladin +3/smite = 21
Dex 8
Con 8
Int 12
Wis 16 +4/sub +1/feat +4/demigod (At 60)
Cha 18 +4/sub +4/paladin +20/level +10/feat 2/artifact +4/demi +2/paragon +16/gear = 80 (4 points higher than a regular turner cleric)

Pre-epic feats
Divine might (racial bonus)
Great Strength 1-2 (racial bonus)
1 - Blooded
3 - WF: Rapier
6 - Rapier Wit
9 - Extend Spell
12 - IC: Rapier
15 - Power Attack
18 - Divine shield

Epic feats:
21-36 Great Cha VI
39 Great Wis+1

Paladin Bonus feats
23 - EWF
26 - Armor Skin
29 - Epic Prowess
32- 38 Great Smiting 1-3

Legendary feats: - Tome spell penetration - Pandect: Blind Fight
42 - LSA tumble
45-48 - Leg Spell Pen - OR - ESF: Discipline - OR - LWF - OR - Blind Fight
51-54-57-60 Great Cha+4 (total +10)

Paragon Feats:
Planar Turning (Using the Wisdom +4 from Double Demigod)
Domain 3/5 (Sun)
Domain 4/5 (Plant)
Planar Adaptivity 1-3 (So you don't need GR, and can make most use of your soak)