There're many boring checks vs discipline with dc in the 80-90 range so max CC disc on all casters, it's easy to max with +50 from gear. Parry otoh is hard to find on gear, even less on gear useful to casters so you can usually ignore it because it won't be high to be worthwile (while crits are always reduced a bit, the skill investment isn't worth it, and the most important parry checks need 100-120).
There're then some discipline checks in the 120+ range you'll never make on a caster but it doesn't mean the skill is useless to you.
I would say the minimum for saves is what you would get by building a level 60 caster with no saves feats and no Paladin splash. At level 60, non-demi, in +12 gear, your weakest save will be about 47-50. That is usually enough to make a fair amount of checks in Hell, though it's certainly better to avoid the checks in the first place.
Without putting any points into Discipline, you will probably wind up with about 50-60 points when fully equipped and buffed. Will this little discipline ever be useful? Probably not. For example, the discipline vs. slagging by a Cinderscale is about 90, which means you need at least 70 points to even hope to make the check. Most other discipline checks are even higher, but (outside of Nessus) are either rare or inconsequential. I prefer to either splash Monk and dump discipline at level 40, or buy it cross-class.
Can it work? Of course-- there are tons of examples of these kinds of pure caster builds. My cleric is like this-- built for very strong offense. But she was leveled up to Demi x3 using a paladin splash. Could you do it pre-demi? Sure, if you have the right gear and are good at staying alive. The trick is to avoid the checks in the first place, and get absolute immunity to them if possible. If you're up against something that slags, and you only have 50 Discipline, better change to unslaggable gear ASAP.
Last Edit: Dec 10, 2012 22:08:46 GMT by buddhamind
Toon List "They say that 'He who lives by the sword shall surely also die.' That's why I use a hammer."
While the skills are a bit more tricky sometimes the saves aint a big deal. Of course it´s nice if you have them high, but usually it is much more important to position yourself well and out of the reach of the monsters avoiding the checks alltogether. But if you feel better that way the suggested splash of a pali level can save you that trouble as well, but will not realy make you sturdier as a sorc when monters start beating on you. As for the skills discipline should be 30 to at least get a chance to make the checks, but you can avoid several nasty checks just by wearing none slaggable gear. Same goes for concetration which should hit 30. But on a sorc e.g. you can hardly raise alot of skills due to the low int and skillpoints and it still works well. Wizzards can max out any skill they want and very often are made from elves as base race to exploit the able learner ability to the max.
What you should ask yourself is, what kind of caster do you have/want to build. If it is a sorc/wiz it is usually one that stands in the back of the group and aint so dependent on the skills and saves. If it is a frontline one like a druid, cleric(though this is depending on the kind) or bard and quasiclasses you sure want to get your skills and saves up high. Lore and spellcraft are very important as well. Lore if you want to maximize your damage from spells, and spellcraft to 50 to get the second use of Greater Ruin.
For casters these things are less important as the idea is you brought along the tank to shield you from attacks and thus don't need to make checks those worthless meat shields not doing thier jobs keeping things off you! But seriously the minimums are based off a few things you want higher numbers the more often you will be subjected to checks and partially dependent on what checks you will be expecting to run into. You are more likely to have trash mobs on you which often have much lower checks than the others which tanks will often do a reasonably good job of holding off you. The biggest worries are the mobs which casters are expected to handle, tanks won't/can't hit, and have high checks and/or devastating effects. To handle those simply do your caster duty and snuff out or disable the target before it reaches you or ideally anyone in the party.