Open Wizard

[cjmills2069]

I have no races at all available to me at this time, so I only have open races to work with. I really want a damage wizard, thinking four foci in conjuration, evocation, illusion, transmutation or necro but I just dont know what to use other than conjur and evoc. What do you all think? Four foci is all I can fit on an open unless someone can somehow come up with a build with 5 that will take me wherever I need to go. Or maybe a turner cleric? IDK hehe.

[fallenwizard]

Conju is a nobrainer with clouds/orbs, trans is a must for wall if you plan to do any solo/small group LL run grinding and for same goes Illu for decent duration on Ghostly Visage, Evoc is handy, but with relatively low DC on open subby you propably wont get full damage all that often, so kinda questionable. Necro epic is awesome in many LL runs (especialy boss fights). Divination for gate is also very very handy in many LL's, especialy if you use it with the wall, sadly divination won't help you much for other spells. One option would be to lower DC for extra epics, not all that sure how it'd work out, but propably something I'd do for LL running, skip most of the DC spells and rely on AoE damage. Also, I'd most likely just focus on few LL runs (toyshop first to my mind), get few portable holes, trade with vets and upgrade the subrace. Also splashing 1 level of rogue would propably be my advice.

Been gone too long I guess, cant even remember which focis effects on which spells ^_^'

[desocupado]

Gate is Conjuration, so he will be fine with LSF Conj (unlimited range)

Turners are really terrible at low levels, so I'd recommend against making one.

Well, an PT - Air Genasi Wizard 39 Ranger 1* can have:
21/regular +4/Wizard +6/epic_wizard +3/tome +1/human = 36 feats // Enough for:

10 - Great Int X
20 - LSFx5 (Necromancy Conjuration Transmutation** Illusion Evocation) - (** use the tome of spell knowledge at 41+ to get ESF Transmutation)
4 - Legendary Spell Penetration
2 - Metamagic (Empower Extend)

*Splash ranger at level 40 and grab a ESF Illusion and some class skills

Skills
Concentration 63
Craft armor 63
Lore 63
Spellcraft (about 30 points at LL)
Discipline 43 (ranger level)
Parry 43 (ranger level)
Search 43 (ranger level)
Tumble 60/2

However, if you follow fallenwizard good advice try Black Mage (39 Wizard, 1 Rogue) as it is a great build, and will provide you with many opportunities to grab a better subrace of UR or even BUR quality.

[cjmills2069]

Okay this is the build I got then:

Wizard39/Rogue1
Elf: Moon Elf STR10 DEX16 CON12 WIS8 INT18 CHA8

Feats 1-20: SF Conj, GSF Conj, SF Illus, GSF Illus, SF Necro, GSF Necro, SP, Shield Proficiency, GSP, Extend, Empower

Feats 21-40: Great Int 1-10, ESF Necro, Conj, Illusion

Feats 41-60: ESP, LSP, LSF Necro, Trans, Conj, Illusion, ESF Open Lock
Use Trans Book.

[Raj]

For a easier 40->41 transiction, use conj or sp book and take esf trans during level ups, because those two books drop in a fairly accessible and soloable area, the trans one requires you to join a sissy run (so wait for the run to form and actually win the book in the split); almost all newbie builds reccomend the trans tome so it's still in demand.

Lvl 1-40 you could do bare naked with a cha based wiz so missing the esf until after immo is not a big loss

[desocupado]

The reasoning behind the Transmutation recommendation was:
1 - Epic is mostly useful for LL
2 - It didn't have any useful spell for levels 1-55 (The new spells: Flensing and Reverse Gravity are very good for tagging and LL runs).


Well, dropping Evocation is a bad idea for a damage oriented wizard, there are too many useful/area spells for a wizard. Here's a sorted list of the most notable:
Div: Meteor Swarm
Positive: Prismatic Spray
Fire: Incendiary Cloud, Delayed Fireball
Electric: Shock Field, Chain Lighting
Physical: Bigbie's 8th
Sonic: Thunderclaps
Cold: Polar Ray Freezing sphere
Force: IGMS
Misc utility: Gust of Wind Sunburst

However, while the spells are VERY useful, you school selection is good enough to go anywhere (just remember that your focus is instant killing trash mobs and damaging bosses - tough reverse gravity + evaard's too decent area damage).

Heck, (bad advice spoiler) you could Specialize into one school and blocking both Evocation and Enchantment for access to a third Paragon spell later or higher DC.

[chirality]

Wouldn't recommend speccing with an open sub build, as you lose too much from various buffs/utility spells of barred schools that the spec DC does not make up for given open sub in the first place. Wizard is very powerful in lowbie areas due to the massive amount of buffs for all kinds of situations available (play smart and you can even rely on buffs for the essential imms rather than gear).

Assuming the player in question is indeed planning on reincing or making a new toon once a better sub is acquired, I probably wouldn't recommend Nec either. I don't think DC will be high enough to be worth it for LLs and I never find DoM to be extremely useful till Sissy, well unless you count cheesily soloing one spawn at a time somewhere like Uro and using DoM to neutralize the mass camo and SR buffs that are such a pain from the casters. Nec is also more or less useless in Toy which would be a great place for open sub build to xp, learn, and with some luck pop a PH for trade maybe. Although DoM is useful in boss fights, low LLs not so much in my opinion...mainly for the anti-heal function not the anti-buff function as other than King Myxo I can't think of too many issues there for the runs that would be attractive.

I also would start with Con as high as possible rather than Dex as you have done, this is just 100% opinion but I'm of the "more hp" crowd for a mage especially a wiz. Few points higher ac doesn't do much, same with few extra points on already abysmal Ref save, but extra hundred or two hps can really come in handy especially for a mage dealing with kb when trying to level somewhere like DB (or heck it sure helps to not get instad by Primal Cataclysm every damn spawn in Uro)

[desocupado]

Dec 27, 2012 18:10:58 GMT chirality said:

Wouldn't recommend speccing with an open sub build, as you lose too much from various buffs/utility spells of barred schools that the spec DC does not make up for given open sub in the first place. Wizard is very powerful in lowbie areas due to the massive amount of buffs for all kinds of situations available (play smart and you can even rely on buffs for the essential imms rather than gear).

Assuming the player in question is indeed planning on reincing or making a new toon once a better sub is acquired, I probably wouldn't recommend Nec either. I don't think DC will be high enough to be worth it for LLs and I never find DoM to be extremely useful till Sissy, well unless you count cheesily soloing one spawn at a time somewhere like Uro and using DoM to neutralize the mass camo and SR buffs that are such a pain from the casters. Nec is also more or less useless in Toy which would be a great place for open sub build to xp, learn, and with some luck pop a PH for trade maybe. Although DoM is useful in boss fights, low LLs not so much in my opinion...mainly for the anti-heal function not the anti-buff function as other than King Myxo I can't think of too many issues there for the runs that would be attractive.

Spec in Necromancy would do the trick (he would have the same DC of a Genie without spec - plenty for most runs)
That added with the ability to use Energy Drain (9) for caster levels would provide somewhat solid overall casting DC.
Conjuration's orbs can be used at full effect even when you can't get extra CL, which is a plus.
However blocking Evocation, as I suggested earlier, would be a bad move (you need it to use IGMS at Pre-LL and Karsus at 63) - I'd block Divination (Losing Premonition and Power Word Kill) and Enchantment (Losing Rebuke as damage dealer and vocalize, as a situational spell). While premonition is a sad loss, Greater Stoneskin provides a higher quality Soak with LSF Transmutation and CL 59. Rebuke cna be eaisly replaced by greater orb of force.

Dec 27, 2012 18:10:58 GMT chirality said:

I also would start with Con as high as possible rather than Dex as you have done, this is just 100% opinion but I'm of the "more hp" crowd for a mage especially a wiz. Few points higher ac doesn't do much, same with few extra points on already abysmal Ref save, but extra hundred or two hps can really come in handy especially for a mage dealing with kb when trying to level somewhere like DB (or heck it sure helps to not get instad by Primal Cataclysm every damn spawn in Uro)

Agreed- as elf go with (at character creation - without subrace modifiers) )Int 18 Con 14 Dex 14

[chirality]

Fair enough, it really comes down to personal preference though.

I am picturing a toon reinced, shelved for later reinc, or delegated to mule/looter/forger role probably before 55 (50 for a UR like planewalker for instance), so I would not be concerned with trying to achieve high dc for death magic and ED as other than very lowbie stuff it's just not as useful or efficient to me, grinding low LLs with instas is rough with open sub, SR is one thing but damage is overal more efficient to my playstyle unless I can really get good mileage, and if we're talking a pre-50 wiz in desert good luck making fast time trying to wail devs even if you are landing EDs first. Sorc with channel and Weird is a different story and for me Weird is the insta for that type of stuff due to the higher DC (albeit 2), hell open sub wiz can reliably mass zhents at level 17 with weird. Try that with Wail or god forbid CoD (it's not like he's wearing Silverymoon robes or anything) and different story. Anyway I'm not saying Nec is bad, I love it, DoM rules, but for the purpose of this toon I don't see it so much. I'd probably do Div for better Premo and Contingency which is a big help for smooth grinding if you aren't super pro and never die.

Now the schools as above are the same build, I use don't get me wrong, but I find even with Genie using Nec instas for slots rather than clouds, aoe dmg spam, is just not worth it till (relatively) late in the game, it's just not beast DC enough for my tastes. Now if you are talking full party bard curse shifter curse NB and ploder with BT prayer then ok maybe a bit better but meh.

Nec does rule so I'm not trying to make a big deal I just think in practice it won't be used as much especially with limited slots, we're talking pre-BUR kit non-demi wiz...anyway good luck with the build, either way it will be fun and powerful.

[desocupado]

Well, high necro DC is very handy for Sissy, Thids and Uro.
For desert he will be fine with the 50% dmg from evocation. (Wizards can afford to have Legend Lore, so he will have that advantage over Sorcerers)

[cjmills2069]

Dec 26, 2012 23:27:52 GMT desocupado said:

Gate is Conjuration, so he will be fine with LSF Conj (unlimited range)

Turners are really terrible at low levels, so I'd recommend against making one.

Well, an PT - Air Genasi Wizard 39 Ranger 1* can have:
21/regular +4/Wizard +6/epic_wizard +3/tome +1/human = 36 feats // Enough for:

10 - Great Int X
20 - LSFx5 (Necromancy Conjuration Transmutation** Illusion Evocation) - (** use the tome of spell knowledge at 41+ to get ESF Transmutation)
4 - Legendary Spell Penetration
2 - Metamagic (Empower Extend)

*Splash ranger at level 40 and grab a ESF Illusion and some class skills

Skills
Concentration 63
Craft armor 63
Lore 63
Spellcraft (about 30 points at LL)
Discipline 43 (ranger level)
Parry 43 (ranger level)
Search 43 (ranger level)
Tumble 60/2

However, if you follow fallenwizard good advice try Black Mage (39 Wizard, 1 Rogue) as it is a great build, and will provide you with many opportunities to grab a better subrace of UR or even BUR quality.

So something like this? I went with tinker gnome for no elemental vulnerability.

I got this:

1: GSF Illusion
3: SF Necro
5: GSF Necro
6: SF Conj
09: GSF Conj
10: SF Evo
12: GSF Evo
15: SF Trans
15: GSF Trans
18: Extend
20: Empower
21: Int 1
23: Int 2
24: Int 3
26: Int 4
27: Int 5
29: Int 6
30: Int 7
32: Int 8
33: Int 9
35: ESF Illusion
36: ESF Conj
38: ESF Evo
39: ESF Trans
40: ESF Necro
41: Read the Spell Penetration Book.
42: L Spell Pen
45: LSF Necro
48: LSF Illusion
51: LSF Conj
54: LSF Evo
57: LSF Trans
60: G Int 10

Look okay?

[laserpointer]

Unfortunately tinker gnome can't use the Ultra-Rare staff of choice for wizards (Ruinvorn's Claw) and also a shield in the off-hand for AC; instead they are stuck to using either only a staff or a fan(drop in spell slots)+shield. Also you won't be getting a feat at lvl 40 so you will have to drop one LSF.

[cjmills2069]

That was with his build of 39wizard/1ranger. Or should I just follow the open build that only gets four epics and splashes rogue till I get a better race that can fit 5 epics?

[chirality]

Dec 28, 2012 3:28:49 GMT desocupado said:

Well, high necro DC is very handy for Sissy, Thids and Uro.
For desert he will be fine with the 50% dmg from evocation. (Wizards can afford to have Legend Lore, so he will have that advantage over Sorcerers)

Well, if he specs and bans div then he won't have it and if he doesn't spec then DC won't be so high after all...well yes you are 100% correct, it is important/good to have good death magic for the death magic runs if you are an arcane, I just am not convinced of applying top-tier toon tactics to a starter, by this I mean that (just my opinion) for instas if you aren't landing them very frequently then using another option (school like evo or conj) to damage might be a better usage of time, it is really easy to mass and mow down maps with clouds and damage because it's highly independent of DC. But either way it will be good to have for sure and eventually it will have quite fine DC especially with other stuff coming into play (and of course nec does that), DoM is definitely nice for Sissy and Thids. Uro, I disagree without the DC, just my experience but it's not worth it if the numbers aren't there. Yetis are a different story I guess but it's not so fun on a lot of the rest, also for a wiz it's a pita to try calculating exactly how many of each spell you'll need, this is compounded when using instas and having a high chance of failure, now add in needing weirds as well as wails for each spawn, well all I'm trying to get at is that sometimes the less flashy option works just fine in practice. My mindset with lowbie (read: not such great slot gear) wiz is most bang for the buck, every slot is treasured, so how can I make those slots go a long way and also how can I prep stuff that is very flexible so I don't end up having a bunch of fire spells prepped for styg and SOL when the random drops a PF. This is the crux of the illusion of a wizard being able to bust out the best spell for a given situation--in fact it's more the opposite...roll around with a bunch of soups and evards...the same reason that sorcs take evards, because with limited spells known you want a real flexible spell known, well with limited slots you want a real flexible spell prepped.

Anyway as for the build cj...

I think it looks good indeed.

Only things I could do to tweak (just personal things/opinion) would be to get the 10th Great Int earlier, that's just because I like to minmax skill points and slots (slightly), not that either is a big deal, the former is a joke with too many points to keep track of in the first place, but still...

For tome personally I would do Evo as it is identical to SP in terms of loot access and I prefer the SP during levelling, especially 40s, over Evo DC which I find doesn't particularly make much difference in pre-40s (after all with nec and illus you'll be insta-ing, conj clouds...I use Evo for sure but meh when overall damage is so low it's not missed so much). I also like to prioritize Conj feats in order to get (just a bit) better summons, (just a bit) earlier. These of course again are just my own things I like to do, I'm not trying to preach, just tossing things out that I find useful.

One last thing is regarding your subbie choice, keep in mind that being a small-sized gnome limits your equipment options to only one magic staff (one-handed for medium toons) or fan + flag. This isn't "too" big of a deal for many but it is something to consider.

[cjmills2069]

I think I might as well go with the Loot-Mage build, will help me get equipment faster and stuff like that. So I just have a quick question, should I go with evocation or conjuration on the build? It has four foci of Necromancy, Illusion, Transmutation and Evocation. I just don't know if I should replace Evocation with Conjuration as I see that my DC(?) wont be high anyway so half damage will most likely occur so conjuration will benefit me more with cloud DC's and stuff like that correct? What do you guys think?

Three foci for sure: Necro/Trans/Illus
One focus unsure of: Evocation vs Conjuration

Thoughts?