Penetrating Arrow - Fig 10/Sorc 1/AA 29 (test)

[chirality]

Why sorc level instead of wiz?

Well, guess that is pretty obvious.

This looks interesting...shame can't have old divine might AND new para weap spec...that damage would be tasty

Also, potential derail but this makes me think, what about having Whetstone work for ranged weapons as well?

In fact if that is possible...now hopping from fighter to rogue...if it is possible to have whetstone buff on ranged then could this technique be used possibly to help rogues out? General consensus is PWS rocks, either alone or at least in combination with whetstone and people are now even going as far as to come up with builds utilizing just fighter and WS (and whetstone for less unorthodox melee builds) much as use WM for crit (the comparison I am trying to draw here is that this is a more serious commitment to the class, not just a 1- or 2-level splash). If this is popular and also powerful enough to be attractive, (and--as of yet--not deemed imbalanced) then perhaps it could serve the purpose of a rogue buff? I would elaborate here on justifying the idea but I think it's pretty clear..

Actually what I would really like to see is this done for assassins, per the many many ranger vs. assassin/assassin improvement discussions, but rogue is in need of more help at the moment (so they say).

[desocupado]

Jan 14, 2013 0:24:59 GMT chirality said:

Why sorc level instead of wiz?

Well, guess that is pretty obvious.

I didn't think it through, seemed good to have more castings per day (Cha mod + Sorcerer spell per day) of true strike, Port vs evil and summon 1. I mean what benefit would Wizard bring?

Jan 14, 2013 0:24:59 GMT chirality said:

This looks interesting...shame can't have old divine might AND new para weap spec...that damage would be tasty

Also, potential derail but this makes me think, what about having Whetstone work for ranged weapons as well?

Yeah, unresistable damage would have been sweet.
Well, it's not exactly possible to use the wheatstone.
You can use the buggy workaround, use the wheatstone with a melee weapon then switch to ranged (you won't get keen). But is it worth the hassle (bug exploit) for +2 Phy?

Class Derail

Jan 14, 2013 0:24:59 GMT chirality said:

In fact if that is possible...now hopping from fighter to rogue...if it is possible to have whetstone buff on ranged then could this technique be used possibly to help rogues out? General consensus is PWS rocks, either alone or at least in combination with whetstone and people are now even going as far as to come up with builds utilizing just fighter and WS (and whetstone for less unorthodox melee builds) much as use WM for crit (the comparison I am trying to draw here is that this is a more serious commitment to the class, not just a 1- or 2-level splash). If this is popular and also powerful enough to be attractive, (and--as of yet--not deemed imbalanced) then perhaps it could serve the purpose of a rogue buff? I would elaborate here on justifying the idea but I think it's pretty clear..

Actually what I would really like to see is this done for assassins, per the many many ranger vs. assassin/assassin improvement discussions, but rogue is in need of more help at the moment (so they say).

What you want is a Fighter 4 Wm 7 Assassin 29. Str based. (Half-Molydeus or One-Eyed)

Start with fighter 1 (and base Hide/MS 2), take assassin 10, then 2 fighter then WM 7 then Assassin 18 Fighter 1 Assassin 1. Well, perhaps the trade of 1 DC for 20 Physical damage is worth it.

Well you have just 4 interesting options of weapon for an Str Assassin:
Assassin dagger (not Avail with WM) - Best threat range = More Penetrating and Mortal Strikes
Halberd (only viable for Large - Since the trade of AC isn't worth it in my opinion) - leave for large assassins
Morning Star - Bad threat range, but dual damage types - Go Humanoid Shifter instead (if you can get a OC/DC Unarmed/Morning stars)
Light Flail - Passable. 3 Threat and bludgeoning (Nice For PFs)


Maybe using Fighter+BG with Assassin dagger is best. (You can Instant kill most Crittable Foes with mortal strike anyway). Heck you could even add Divine Might for some extra Cha damage.

-Wheatstone increases Phy damage by Fighter/4 (So just a CC Fighter, ad perhaps a DwD can make a real use of it)

[simpetar]

Jan 14, 2013 15:41:27 GMT desocupado said:

I didn't think it through, seemed good to have more castings per day (Cha mod + Sorcerer spell per day) of true strike, Port vs evil and summon 1. I mean what benefit would Wizard bring?

Not much, just tradition. Elves without subrace have favorite class wizard, therefore wiz/ftr or monk or whatever/AA would completely avoid xp penalty for multiclassing (AA is prestige). However subrace FC (if present) overrides any original FC and are talking about fallen angel or pharlan. You will get penalty no matter if you chose sorc, wiz or bard, so feel free to chose

[khaine]

I hadn't realised that you could effectively use divine might without having turn undead from a class ability, so this changes things. I haven't been playing in quite some time, but the last character I had a go at was a paladin aa trying for that tasty Divine might damage.

One thing, at the time I also thought the plate of uxan uldorath and its Divine Power, did some testing and found some odd results, as described in this bug report While I'm unsure if this is still doing this, it may cause problems.

Also, as I played him (without the at-the-time best equipment, but still pretty good stuff) he did get mauled easily. I really think reincarnating a character a demi (or more, whatever) into this sort of build and having his equipment all laid our for him when you do make it.

It seems to be that both paladin and fighter routes offer up to +20 irrisistable damage, which is nice and symetrical, and it didn't look like I could fit both in without using pharlan/FA. It looks to me like the only AA build which can access all these variaties of damage is a Pharlan/FA Fighter/AA, though if it does it well is another matter.

I suppose the core of such a glass cannon build would be the following features:
IC, OC/DC & PC/SC (For criticals)
WS/EWS/LWS/PWS (For +20 damage)
DM and 50 CHa (For +20 Damage)
42 Str for +16 Mighty damage
Max AA levels.
WF/GWF/EWF/EP/LWF/PWF
Attack stat raised as high as possible

Then add in enough either wis or dex and WF feats to get an AB of about 100, and the rest on trying not to die. Despite Pharlan getting a wisdom bonus not a dex bonus, I think I'd take the route of Dex just for the armour, though you'd have to get dex real high considering your cha and str.

Personally I think it may be easier to design a build that assumes bur or abyss gear and all that entails, and work backwards from there, cutting away features and stats. If you're using Divine Power (and especially if its still not working right from items), then I doubt you need to get all the weapon feats *and* get all the Great [Stat] feats for your attack stat for a good AB (You can get +95 *ignoring* your attack stat).

Oh, and I think its worth getting Improved Expertise and carrying a shield around. AC is just too low sometimes, and you need to switch when you change position. Finesse would be fun, but not really needed.

[desocupado]

Well AA cc has +9 LBAB with divine power it goes to +15

Paladin and Fighter both offer resistible Physical damage (It's piercing with a bow actually)

To get Legendary and Paragon Weapon specialization you need to get a fighter level at Epic levels, which means a pure AA is not possible (no keen bows)

You probably mean Intuitive attack (it's wisdom based)
Yeah this kind of build requires solid gear, above all I'd recommend the asmodeus ring (shunt ring)

You can't use Expertise (or Power Attack) wielding a bow.

It's not a bad thing to have high AB (100 without divine power) and maximum listen.
Truth is, I'm waiting my reincarnation timer to give it a go.

[khaine]

Ah, when I checked the wiki I didn't notice the "can only be taken on a fighter level". There goes making one uber-damage build, but there we go, thats how it should be (even though it would be a total glass cannon).

As far as expertise goes, I know you can't use it with a shield but its just that as far as I recall, playing a really squishy aa like this, is you really need to move around. Sometimes things are going to hit you and sometimes theres not much you can do about it while you reposition, in these cases I think its best to switch to a shield and use expertise to help you survive long enough to move. This sort of thing will hurt your damage output, but then so will being on the ground.

I'm aware of Divine Power's LBAB, though as I should mention you should test it out, make sure it's not still bugged. (though I suppose, technically, it was bugged in the users favour, whatever).

Finally, regarding AB, yeah more ab usually never hurts, but it does if you're taking it at the expense of other more utilitarian feats. This doesn't really apply so much for you I suppose since your attack stat hasn't been pushed that high, but having, say, 60 dex and all the bells and whistles can put your ab at +120 with divine power. This could be considered overkill, especially if you have to get the Gr.Dex Feats.

[Edit] Bear in mind it has really been quite a while since I actually played. The divine might aa is something that I'm rather interested in seeing flourish however [/Edit]
[Edit2] I mistakenly thought Divine Power also would increase BAB. It does, but onyl by adding an attack bonus, not actually altering BAB[/Edit2]