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Post by tank on Jan 21, 2013 20:38:41 GMT
I'm fairly new, about a week into this mod, and I know I really haven't spent enough time to really complain about the drop rate. But, I have been playing with players who have been here for years, and have heard the dreaded stories of subby books and how extremely rare they are.
As a new player, this news is rather depressing. Mainly because most of these veteran players played during a time where the drop rate was no where near what it is now, and stockpiled as many as they could.
So now, as a new player, I get to see all of these veteran players running around with cool subraces and knowing that I'll never have the opportunity to either personally find the book I want, or be able to trade for one, since they are so prized that most wont even sell them.
All I ask, is that you up the drop rate so that new players can share in the experience of having BUR subbies. If not to find them ourselves, to maybe loosen the grip of players who do own the books so that maybe they'd sell them, and if they'd sell them, for prices that only the same veterans could afford :\
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Post by tomaan on Jan 21, 2013 21:07:14 GMT
I'm a vet, but I agree about the drop rate. It's compounded by the drop in player population -- fewer players means fewer drops means fewer items for trade/sell means prices skyrocket. Combine that with the lvl 60 requirement and new players have to go quite some time without getting to use a BUR subby.
And since most forum builds are based on BURs....
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Post by Enius the White on Jan 21, 2013 22:18:15 GMT
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Post by chirality on Jan 21, 2013 23:48:41 GMT
Well, he did say in that thread that he was thinking of doubling it. The update document says "increased".
I never really thought about it, but that is a good point, Enius.
Were the rates actually doubled?
Is it possible to even discuss numbers? If so I am curious to know what percentage the respective increases/decreases were.
Is the general atmosphere still one of "BUR subs aren't dropping"?
I have a hard time believing it was doubled...Funky did say he was thinking of it but I wonder...there is a glaring lack of anecdotal evidence...not that that means jack, but still.
As for the UR subs, surely this wasn't reciprocal and the rate was halved?
Just to put in my anecdotes for the BUR drops, well to be honest actually I have heard of a few BUR subs dropping in recent memory (8-10 months or so). I think 4 or 5 amongst about half a dozen players. If memory serves all but one were in Hades and 3 of those were in groups of 2 or more. I think one was from a shallow-mid Hell run such as Min. 3 of these have been the newest set of races--Half-Cyclops, Half-Moly, and Sidhe (in that order I think). 1 was Hound Archon. And the last that I just now remembered, and this was the most recent I believe (found in Oinos by a soloer I think or possibly dualboxing/with a friend) was Erinyes.
So to be completely honest I would have to say that personally I have noticed an increase in drops. To say that this is anything more than random chance or does truly reflect an increase, I am unsure. However in this last 8-10 month span (this is my rough estimate for the period in which the aforementioned subraces dropped--it may be smaller) I have heard of (not seen personally a single one though) more BUR subs dropping than in any other period of comparable elapsed time since I have started playing this game.
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Post by Mister Pin on Jan 22, 2013 1:23:22 GMT
I don't do hell runs like a lot of others on hg, but i can say that in the last 2 months i have done around 25-30 runs (approx.) so not many- and yet i saw 1 BUR book in all of those.
Now as for UR books, they drop a lot more, but still, when you are new and hit 60 do you want a UR or a BUR toon? After all that time you put in with a common race toon, you want to upgrade it, (because otherwise it will just sit in mothballs).
But come on- most know that you need 2 books to do that- and really who is going so SELL a koly? or any other of the newer BUR's, let alone TWO of em..
As to "hearing" about BUR books dropping i know a fair share of people on the game myself, and if asked they will say the same thing, "what's a BUR book"? I understand that some will say that ur's are just fine yada yada. I have a few in the "mothball vault myself", i rarely if ever play them. Why? I have BUR toons to play with, from books i was able to get in runs or buying in the auction chest. You don't see that often either anymore.
And sorry, but that "recent discussion/poll was over a year ago. I'm ranting. I'll shut up now.
Pin
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Post by chirality on Jan 22, 2013 2:23:23 GMT
and really who is going so SELL a koly? or any other of the newer BUR's, let alone TWO of em.. Yeah...that is one thing that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon...supply may have supposedly been increased but it still seems to fall far far short of demand, just as over a year ago + And yes supply should of course remain far behind demand, I understand that. I think the point remains though...
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Post by Yojimbo on Jan 23, 2013 13:31:40 GMT
I believe the Forge books are considered BUR Books too so they are in the pool with Race books though I may be mistaken.
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Post by chirality on Jan 23, 2013 18:10:11 GMT
This is the case in my understanding also.
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Post by chainlink on Jan 24, 2013 10:30:18 GMT
I'd be happy with an increased drop rate for the forge books as the amount of BURs I have that need tweaking is considerable. I think the race book drop rate is about right at the minute as unlike most other items you'll only need one unless you want to reincarnate from a lesser race and I think that due to the lower drop rate now you could possibly have a one book and very large amount of cash (20 or so billion?) route for reincarnation?
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Post by evildeath123 on Jan 24, 2013 19:00:41 GMT
I haven't played for several months due to computer issues but I do hope to get back eventually. I guess I'm an asset rich but cash poor vet. I have most BUR subs and a 'stockpile' of subs...no spare 'good' subs however and nowhere near 20bill cash. I understand the want from devs for new players to make multiple toons and play through the early stages of the mod many times for both flavour and to build up their own stockpile of items and knowledge/experience, but a 20bill (or thereabouts) price tag for a reinc?!?!?! That sounds extremely excessive to me. In many years of playing HG I've not accumulated anywhere near 20bill gp. I could possibly go on a selling spree and come close, but I'd then have nothing left to gear my toons with! My original gnoll barb is now a lvl 70ish Mael barb. Considering the amount of play time required to reach level 80 I don't think it unreasonable for people to want to reinc old toons and keep playing them rather than having to start from scratch and 'lose' all that collected xp and mothball, now lvl 60, toons.
A price tag like that would be shifting the goal posts significantly for new players compared to what longer term players have experienced.
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Post by tomaan on Jan 24, 2013 19:20:15 GMT
I'm a vet, but I agree about the drop rate. It's compounded by the drop in player population -- fewer players means fewer drops means fewer items for trade/sell means prices skyrocket. Combine that with the lvl 60 requirement and new players have to go quite some time without getting to use a BUR subby. And since most forum builds are based on BURs.... So, of course, BUR books drop on about half (if not more) of the Hells runs I've done since this post. Which leads me to believe that the real issue is the drop in player population and associated drop in supply that comes with it. Not sure how to remedy that, to be honest...but I would not have an issue with making things "easier" for newbs in the meantime.
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Post by CataclysmicDeath on Jan 24, 2013 20:23:18 GMT
but a 20bill (or thereabouts) price tag for a reinc?!?!?! That sounds extremely excessive to me. Actually I think more like 40 bil. If BUR Subs are selling for 20 bil each, you ned 2 for a reinc as a new player, one for the tag and one for the reinc correct? And I agree it's excessive but what can you do. Cata
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Post by gandoron on Jan 24, 2013 20:42:30 GMT
I don't think 20Bil is a valid number. That sounds high. Over the past few months I've seen more bur books on the market at 3-5 bil...and honestly, that's about what they used to cost as well. When randomization was rolled in, the drop rate was increased, and subsequently the bur book drop rate...even though there was no variation in quality (think it was a 70% increase, but might have been 100%), then that was adjusted for....back to the rate they used to drop at.
Additionally, a handful of the "newer" bur races, including wemic, brownie etc...which must have been implemented more than 5 years ago (before my time), were at a 5x (iirc) drop rate compared to the other books. This was discovered and adjusted about a year or so ago, when the newest bur races (HCG, etc) were added.
All in all 2-5 billion is what a probably what a subrace book should cost in gold. If you have a nice item you can trade that as well. It took me about 7 months to get my first bur subrace. I remember when HC was the top pick on nessus (PW did not drop).
-G
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Post by madzapper on Jan 24, 2013 21:13:15 GMT
And I agree it's excessive but what can you do. Couldn't there be a mix of options. For example on a certain collection of run tags, tag the user for set specific subraces. (i.e. (uro, hive, myco, pom, ..., ..., db, tia) when completed yield the undying subrace tag). I offer this example for demonstration purposes, not because I am suggesting it specifically. Maybe only do a few of these and still maintain level 60 requirement as well. Maybe construct some general purpose subraces similar to undying, but not as good as undying that could still be classified as BUR tier. Alternatively, or in addition, perhaps on achieving demi, tag the user with a random BUR subrace? Still leave the books the way they are, but provide a few more reliable/determinable way for players to gain a bur subrace? Cheers, Madzapper
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Post by desocupado on Jan 24, 2013 21:58:22 GMT
And I agree it's excessive but what can you do. Couldn't there be a mix of options. For example on a certain collection of run tags, tag the user for set specific subraces. (i.e. (uro, hive, myco, pom, ..., ..., db, tia) when completed yield the undying subrace tag). I offer this example for demonstration purposes, not because I am suggesting it specifically. Maybe only do a few of these and still maintain level 60 requirement as well. Maybe construct some general purpose subraces similar to undying, but not as good as undying that could still be classified as BUR tier. Alternatively, or in addition, perhaps on achieving demi, tag the user with a random BUR subrace? Still leave the books the way they are, but provide a few more reliable/determinable way for players to gain a bur subrace? Cheers, Madzapper 1 free (random-new) BUR for the first demigod on the account perhaps? UpgradeMaybe the gold cost should be around 5 billion for BUR subrace upgrade (1 billion for UR, 500 million for secret) instead of burning a book. That value is more realistic for new players (the BUR books are still valuable).
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