Great post Fade. +1
And yes it is Zelekhut
I really like KE's ideas from the last post.
To me they are much more appropriate and much less troublesome than some other suggestions which seem to be based on the idea of balancing classes vs. eachother with the usage of XR subs
I like all KE's ideas with one exception. Before I get to that though I just want to say that those most recent suggestions show a good balance of desirability, power, and unique-ness without attempting to add powerful goodies to plug leaks derived from classes themselves
Stuff like max appraise to vendor, no xp pen, random hostile effect immunities
These things seem great because they aren't designed to give Class X something it wants or needs in relation to Class Y
They seem to sit well on the fence, just between fluff and strong power increase
Like PM auto(emp now) FoD it's just cool but it's not trying to be anything other than unique sub ability
Anyway the one exception is +spell slots, Deso mentioned this as well
I really dislike this, at least for arcanes, it just seems a smack in the face after slot gear was nerfed across the board and sorcs still get tons of slots, +slots would be a silly and unneeded upgrade for sorc, and for wiz 2 slots/level is a joke, I'd rather just have levi on the XR sub instead of 2 slots...and adding more slots would just be too strong anyway
Now druids I think could use more slots but druid sub looks pretty good anyway...cleric too...
On the other hand +SP/DC for 5 and lower seems great, it's instantly obvious why KE picked that number...
it seems to have good synergy with the slot gear nerf as well as the new low lvl spells
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One thing I would like to see for soc/wiz XRs is levi...if breach imm is out the window and we're looking for some replacements...how bout wiz keeping lev like Genie...without lev it's a downgrade...sorcs would love levi also...
rather than give wiz sub more slots...to make up for wiz sucking...let XR sub keep lev...problem solved...
speaking of sorc vs. wiz, I really disagree with the notes on the spreadsheet...Laser already addressed this and I reposted his quote but this got lost in the derail with Funky...
It is simply not true that both subs each get "4 feats that every <sorc/wiz> wants"
It's highly skewed...yes every sorc wants SP feats...= great bonus feats
Every wiz does not want max and ruin...sure they're nice...but they're not an absolutely necessity like SP...
Again why was this shifted from the BUR precedent, I don't understand other than to provide bonus for sorc...if there is another explanation I'd like to hear it...sorc gets 4 free feats while wiz gets effectively 2 (yes everyone does want emp and extend) but while max is real nice, it's far from necessary on any caster, and wiz only takes it due to bonus feats....ruin is great but it's in no way comparable to the necessity of SP feats...
Anyway enough on that subject but I just wanted to repeat it...since the notes on the spreadsheet v2 seem to indicate that it's 100% even, which is not accurate
So back to general XR sub special ideas:
I'm not sure about EE areas at all, but looking for specials to give some XR subs seems like a great opportunity to hand out some survival feats that may be more desirable in EE areas than they are now, i.e. fire/earth
Yes I know these both have uses--both for forgers, and respectively fire has some "use" in PoP or maybe other abyss maps, I don't know I've never bothered testing, just run to the portal quick enough and you can avoid damage on the way in...and on the way out, meh, yes I've nearly limboed to big spawn trapping me in the fire on exit but it's not a big deal....as for earth yes now it gives stone imm...
But regardless levi/wb are still king, if this precedent were to change with EEs, it seems a good opportunity to add any of these survivals to XR subs
And again I'd like to see more levi/wb on XR subs anyway...in particular any BUR that gives it, I think the XR upgrade should keep it...after all earlier we talked about "just wanting to make these subs playable" and desirable in light of removal of Any base race...well not receiving a serious downgrade from lack of levi/wb would go a long way toward keeping players happy...
Please at least give that some serious thought is all I'm saying...the idea of running around with XR caster sub that needs to wear lev gear for desert when the BUR version has wings...that seems kind of lame...and yeah the desert part is just a joke...but let's think of hells/abyss...that's a lot less funny when the Genie PM is laughing with both levi and WB while the Favored of Loviatar is afraid to get near tossers...
Also speaking of names, I'm not too big on Favored of Loviatar for PM, especially elf PM...what's that about? That would be more appropriate for Lasher (or possibly BK)...a class that focuses on Loviatar's flavor of inflicting pain and torment...if PM XR is going to be a deity's favored, it should be a god of death, undeath, etc. like Velsharoon (in fact an elf deity so makes sense for elf PM sub, unlike Loviatar who is not an elven deity, and the elven pantheon is quite large enough to support just about any Favored elf sub) I'm not saying it's impossible for an elf to worship a human deity but it's just not likely and seems awkward
Edit: Favored of Velsharoon makes more sense for Elf PM than Favored of Loviatar
Meanwhile Favored of Loviatar is absolutely perfect for Lasher