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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 20, 2013 5:56:56 GMT
Along with other XR items, there will be a line of XR weapons. This spreadsheet will give you some idea how other weapon sets on HG have been statted: HG Weapon StatsThere will likely also be one last set of non-megadamage weapons, akin to Dis weapons, introduced later in the Elder Evil areas, but the XR weapons will be close to ultimate in power. We are NOT looking to redress tank/caster balance issues here - the statting of paragon areas will more than accomplish that on its own.We're also looking to stat a new set of Megadamage weapons, for the Githzerai Monastery in Limbo. There are already two sets for each elemental damage type, save acid, which is already slated for the Demonweb Pits. These megadamage weapons will be of a higher tier than those that preceded them (as, for example, Dulvoroth is higher than Ssith and Myco), and their stats should reflect that. I'm thinking Sonic/Neg (Mag and Div are spoken for already), but I'm open to ideas. The XR weapons will be +14 enhance, and the Gith weapons will be +13. My main question is what you think the damage types should be - how many and how high? There's a lot to take into consideration - raw DPS, effects of weapon buffs, risk of healing, and so on. In the interests of accomplishing the purpose of the thread and preventing derails, posts of over 400 words will be summarily deleted, as will consecutive posts by the same poster, and off-topic posts. If you can't say what you have to say on this very narrow topic in that number of words, it's unlikely to be of much value. Hell, it only took me 301 words to frame the entire topic. Thanks in advance for your input! Funky
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Post by KnightErrant on Mar 20, 2013 16:13:00 GMT
I'd like to see the XR ones get a chance to have random stuff added, if it's not too much of a coding nightmare. Most of my casters use UR caster staffs with "good stuff" added in green, I would love it if my melee toons could have a chance to improve their abilities out of the same gear slot my casters do.
Always Added Pool-(1 of the following always added):
Affinity to Fire: Any Fire buff adds an additional +1 dice Affinity to the Divine: Any Divine Buff adds an additional +1 Dice (Same as above for the rest of the weapon buffs)
Common Added Property Pool:
+10 Regeneration +30 Vampiric Regeneration +20 Craft Weapon +20 Parry +20 Hide +20 Discipline +20 Tumble +20 Concentration
Rare Added Property Pool:
10-50% Random Elemental Immunity Casts Heal CL-50 x2 a day Casts Entropic Shield CL-50 x2 a day Casts Remove Curse CL-50 x2 a day Casts Holy Sword CL-50 x2 a day
Very Rare Added Property Pool:
5-10% random Exotic Immunity Confusion Immunity Implosion Immunity Stun Immunity
Insanely Rare Added Property Pool:
Mord Immunity Dispel Immunity Breach Immunity Breach/Mord/Dispel on hit ? OC/DC Matching the Weapon type ?
Anyway you get the basic idea. The rarity pools would need fleshing out too.
KE.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 20, 2013 17:25:34 GMT
I'd like to see the XR ones get a chance to have random stuff added, if it's not too much of a coding nightmare. Most of my casters use UR caster staffs with "good stuff" added in green, I would love it if my melee toons could have a chance to improve their abilities out of the same gear slot my casters do. This would take weeks to code, like a mini-randomized-items system (it would have to be retrofitted into the market, the banking system, etc...). Not gonna happen. The buff affinity is a cool idea, though - might well be worth keeping in some form. Funky
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 17:45:29 GMT
Along with other XR items, there will be a line of XR weapons. This spreadsheet will give you some idea how other weapon sets on HG have been statted: HG Weapon StatsThere will likely also be one last set of non-megadamage weapons, akin to Dis weapons, introduced later in the Elder Evil areas, but the XR weapons will be close to ultimate in power. We are NOT looking to redress tank/caster balance issues here - the statting of paragon areas will more than accomplish that on its own.We're also looking to stat a new set of Megadamage weapons, for the Githzerai Monastery in Limbo. There are already two sets for each elemental damage type, save acid, which is already slated for the Demonweb Pits. These megadamage weapons will be of a higher tier than those that preceded them (as, for example, Dulvoroth is higher than Ssith and Myco), and their stats should reflect that. I'm thinking Sonic/Neg (Mag and Div are spoken for already), but I'm open to ideas. The XR weapons will be +14 enhance, and the Gith weapons will be +13. My main question is what you think the damage types should be - how many and how high? There's a lot to take into consideration - raw DPS, effects of weapon buffs, risk of healing, and so on. In the interests of accomplishing the purpose of the thread and preventing derails, posts of over 400 words will be summarily deleted, as will consecutive posts by the same poster, and off-topic posts. If you can't say what you have to say on this very narrow topic in that number of words, it's unlikely to be of much value. Hell, it only took me 301 words to frame the entire topic. Thanks in advance for your input! Funky Towards the ends outlined above- in coming up with damage types and amounts, it might be helpful for people to think in terms of vs. For example, instead of just thinking "Githzerai bastard sword", you might want to think "bastard sword vs x paragon". Stating each weapon with a different damage type vs different difficult enemies, and making the lesser-used weapon types have the most effective damage types vs the most difficult enemies could lead to some interesting build/weapon selection issues. I think it would also be cool to have a completely random esoteric (mega) damage type that activates when the weapon is buffed with ANY damage type. So the weapon would always be x esoteric type damage + the buffed damage type when buffed with that spell. Would keep in line with the random nature of limbo. Coding nightmare I am sure, but food for thought.
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Post by KnightErrant on Mar 20, 2013 19:02:03 GMT
I guess my next choice would be to have them look something along these lines...
+14 Enhancement Keen x4 4d12 Elemental x3 4d12 Exotic Affinity to one random Element/Exotic +20 Vampiric Regeneration.
Be craftable at the Alchemist -- Please-please-please...
Maybe add something along the lines of: All Huge Weapons have +10% Physical Immunity All Large weapons have +5% Physical Immunity All Medium weapons have +5% Elemental Immunity All Small weapons have +5 Discipline and Parry
Or is that too much damage ? KE.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 20, 2013 19:45:53 GMT
I don't really see vamp regen or immunities as fitting. My main concern is the damage allotments, and those look pretty broad.
I don't foresee them being craftable...that's something we'll likely reserve for the last item set, as I'll have to implement the gem-merging option as well.
Funky
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Post by gandoron on Mar 20, 2013 19:58:02 GMT
I think KE's idea of some randomization sounds very cool, but also widens the power gap and creates a significant upper level power creep/jump.
I also think we should avoid any +% elem/exo stuff in general. I feel that the +70-100% elem added to items is one of the hardest things to balance for and randomization got us there. Personally, I think those 100% caps were too high.
-G
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Post by KnightErrant on Mar 20, 2013 20:18:18 GMT
A idea along the chaotic line...
+14 Enhancement Keen Affinity to one element/exotic. x4 6d6 Elemental x2 6d6 Exotic
The Elements and Exotics are random like Abyss weapons....but...there's no stipulation on them being different, so you could, in rare case's, wind up with a 24d6 one element 12d6 one exotic weapon...or if that's too megadamage-might be-....maybe add a extra d6 to the elemental side and it has to wind up being at least 2 different elements and one exotic, so 13d6 to two different elements possible on one end and 7d6 to four different on the other end of the randomized spectrum. (hope that makes sense).
KE.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 20, 2013 22:16:54 GMT
I also think we should avoid any +% elem/exo stuff in general. I feel that the +70-100% elem added to items is one of the hardest things to balance for and randomization got us there. Personally, I think those 100% caps were too high. -G Nah, they're easy to balance for, thanks to vulns. Resists WERE a lot harder...until acaos adding stacking resist debuffs, of which you've already seen a couple of uses. The fact that a number seems big doesn't really bear on how difficult it is to balance, so much as the available counterbalancing tools do. Funky
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Post by gandoron on Mar 22, 2013 2:49:45 GMT
I was not saying that it's not possible to counter very high elem imm%. There are obviously levers for this. My concern is that this allows for massive differences in power. Generally you would have a bur ring to primarily cover an element, then get a little from shunt, maybe some from carapace or something. With massive imm% through randomization you completely change this dynamic and massively increase the power gap/spectrum with high level uber setups. I might consider myself a reasonable vet, yet I don't have setups with 6x 70% elem imm added from randomized items like some players on the server.
If the spectrum becomes too wide and you have to balance for the top end, then you can make much of the end game content unreachable to but a few people (making party creation even harder). Not complaining here, just giving my view on the gear value distribution. I think the imm% is the most responsible for this, imho.
-G
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2013 0:03:31 GMT
The top Megadamage Weapons at the moment are either 8d12 elemental/2d10 exotic set ones or 5d12/5d12 random ones. Provided they have the same damages types, I prefer 8d12/2d10 over 5d12/5d12, at least in abyss, because of the effect of damage resistance. I think making Githzerai weapons improve upon the set megadamage weapons by adding 2 dice of elemental and another 2 dice of exotic is enough, for a total of 10d12 elemental and 4d10 exotic.
As for the XR Weapons I would like to see them have a variation between 3 elemental/3 exotic types and 4 elemental/2 exotic types (though I don't like the idea of letting 2 types be the same and having them 'stack' - that seems a bit OP). Currently Abyss is 6d6 buffable to 10d6. Increasing the base damage dice from 6d6 to 8d6 I think is good enough - that's an additional 20% dice to a buffed type compared to abyss weapon or an additional 33% to an unbuffed type.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 24, 2013 0:48:39 GMT
If you're trying to impress me while we debate the dm nominations... it's working. That was exactly the sort of analysis I was looking for. I'd also like to hear a similar set of comparisons from anyone who disagrees, if anyone has a different view, particularly about the pros and cons of damage spread. Laser's way has the advantage of being fairly predictable, since it maintains identical spreads to earlier sets. Funky
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Post by KnightErrant on Mar 24, 2013 6:27:13 GMT
It is a predictable across the board upgrade...Which is great I guess, but I was under the impression you were looking for a more "chaotic" template.
If XR weapons are going to be the "best we can have" as a melee character/toon I would prefer something more than a +2d6 across the board...
There are a lot of weapons in the lowbie/original areas of the game that I see and think "wouldn't it be great if there were end game weapons with some of the same properties".
Maybe allowing them to be auged, not randomly but just able to "accept" a aug would be cool ?
+2d6 over Abyss just seems too little ? too boring ? There must be "something" cool/interesting we can come up with... (I is out of ideas atm so will try to think of some more).
.02 KE.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 24, 2013 6:47:41 GMT
It is a predictable across the board upgrade...Which is great I guess, but I was under the impression you were looking for a more "chaotic" template. Not really, no. The EEs are more about Evil than Chaos. Limbo is obviously chaotic, but those megadamage weaps are in an island of order in that chaos. They aren't. Remember, the final, and likely craftable, set. That would be a massive power boost. I actually deliberated blocked motes, a new random item type, from being augable, for this express reason, after consulting with acaos. Damage is what players tend to focus on, but I'm still open to other suggestions. If you think laser's %s are too small, please suggest what you think is appropriate, either with his type spread, or yours, or in general. Thanks, Funky
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Post by desocupado on Mar 24, 2013 16:09:25 GMT
How many and how high Maybe 2 elements and one exotic per weapon? Something like 2d20 for Elementals (Sonic + Another Random Elemental) and 30 fixed damage for exotic (Negative I assume - for buffs it works like 5d12) -- Having a random elemental give some "chaotic" (unpredictable) behavior for more flavor and variety.
Since it's a negative damage weapon I'd suggest adding +15 Vampiric Regeneration (similar to KE's suggested earlier)
Heal chance If only a single damage type heals, this configuration has 3/9 - 33% chance of having a healing damage type (only worse than a level 50 weapon)
Calculations ---Raw dps (no buffs) --- New weapon 2d20x2 + 30 = 70 (DB= 72 lvl50=60) - however it's much more likely to bypass resistance than a DB (Base damage 20 versus 12)
---Buffed weapon (no exotic buffs)--- New weapon 6d20x2 + 30 = 150 (DB=144, lvl50=84) - actually better than db due better immunity+resistance bypassing (6d20 vs 6d12)
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