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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 21, 2014 17:31:12 GMT
I'm going to try to slide this in at the eleventh hour. I skimmed all the pages of this thread, and I will get around to reading in their entirety all the pages of this thread eventually, but I really wanted to throw out a concept that has been rolling around in my head for a few days. If I'm too late with it, sorry. I just wanted to share. Class - Race - Subrace Name - Rarity - New name - Source material Paladin - Halfling - Arvoreen's Keeper (a prestige class) - XR - Arvoreni - Dragon Magazine, July 2004 Halfling Stat Bonus/Penalty: Strength -2, Dexterity +2 Arvoreni Stat Bonuses/Penalties: Strength +6, Dexterity -2, Constitution +4, Charisma +6 Halfling Feat, Skill, and Special Ability Bonuses: FC - Rogue, can take Legendary Luck without Luck of Heroes, Skill Affinity - Move Silently, Skill Affinity - Listen, Lucky, Fearless, Good Aim, Small Stature Arvoreni Feat, Skill, and Special Ability Bonuses: FC - Paladin, Great Strength I/II, Great Smiting, True Knockdown Immunity at level 40 As I've played my small-size Paladin more and more, I keep quietly bemoaning the fact that there isn't an XR subrace that would allow for small-sized Paladins. I think this quoted idea needs some fine-tuning, and I'm personally fond of it Gnome as the base race rather than Halfling, but I just figured I'd bring it up again and see if I could get a yes or no for the concept. Anyway, here's the suggestion: Gnome "Half-Shiradi" (secret eXtremely Rare; adds wings) - FCs: Bard, Paladin - +8 STR, +6 CHA, free feats: Great Charisma I, Great Charisma II, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Extra Smiting - Other: +1 dice to Greater Smite damage; Levitation The decision to add wings came from the appearance for Shiradi, one of the types of Eladrin, which can be seen here. I know it's kind of silly to think that this might be added, but I kind of feel like it might have just been overlooked, especially since it seemed like we were trying to give upgrades for all of the BUR races with the XR subraces. Let me know.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 21, 2014 17:52:51 GMT
I'm ok with it in principle, though I'd like a little more discussion on it first. Anyone see anything objectionable about it? How does it with with other XRs? Is it about the same in power? Would it obviate another XR? Thanks, Funky
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 21, 2014 23:02:09 GMT
I'll let others weigh in regards to whether or not it's balanced power-wise, but I can't foresee it obviating any other XRs since it's rather unique as far as subraces go. For anything other than a small-sized two-handed paladin/BG, you'd probably be better off with one of the other subraces.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2014 3:25:32 GMT
+1 dice to Greater Smite takes a Cha-based smiter (around 32 Charisma Mod) from 128d20 to 129d20, which adds 10.5 damage to greater smite? Seems next to useless, unless you actually meant to say it increases the number of sides of your dice in which case the next damage type after d20 is around 2d12. 2d12 would be rather OP since you go from an average of 10.5 damage per die to 13, making it a 24% increase in raw damage and totally obviating any other smiter subrace.
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 22, 2014 3:50:31 GMT
I wanted to just increase the number of 1d20s, rather than the type of die. Maybe something like 4d20 for main dmg and 1d20 for sacred/vile would be better? What do you think?
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Post by kaezar on Feb 22, 2014 3:57:30 GMT
I gotta confess I have given some thought to the concept. I'd suggest trading the Great Charisma feats for Epic Prowess/Armor Skin. The last are more generic, I think.
As for the special ability, maybe something not directly linked to HG great smite would be better. Not all paladins need be smiters. Say, fallen guardian angel fires usable 2 times/userest?
Take care Kaezar
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Post by Raj on Feb 22, 2014 4:03:24 GMT
XRs are quite build specific, you suggest generalist feats that are on paladin bonus feats list.
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Post by Raj on Feb 22, 2014 4:04:28 GMT
I wanted to just increase the number of 1d20s, rather than the type of die. Maybe something like 4d20 for main dmg and 1d20 for sacred/vile would be better? What do you think? That's basically two more charisma, I think the subrace is fine w/o the smite boost
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Post by dynneroth on Feb 22, 2014 5:29:15 GMT
I'm going to try to slide this in at the eleventh hour. I skimmed all the pages of this thread, and I will get around to reading in their entirety all the pages of this thread eventually, but I really wanted to throw out a concept that has been rolling around in my head for a few days. If I'm too late with it, sorry. I just wanted to share. Class - Race - Subrace Name - Rarity - New name - Source material Paladin - Halfling - Arvoreen's Keeper (a prestige class) - XR - Arvoreni - Dragon Magazine, July 2004 Halfling Stat Bonus/Penalty: Strength -2, Dexterity +2 Arvoreni Stat Bonuses/Penalties: Strength +6, Dexterity -2, Constitution +4, Charisma +6 Halfling Feat, Skill, and Special Ability Bonuses: FC - Rogue, can take Legendary Luck without Luck of Heroes, Skill Affinity - Move Silently, Skill Affinity - Listen, Lucky, Fearless, Good Aim, Small Stature Arvoreni Feat, Skill, and Special Ability Bonuses: FC - Paladin, Great Strength I/II, Great Smiting, True Knockdown Immunity at level 40 As I've played my small-size Paladin more and more, I keep quietly bemoaning the fact that there isn't an XR subrace that would allow for small-sized Paladins. I think this quoted idea needs some fine-tuning, and I'm personally fond of it Gnome as the base race rather than Halfling, but I just figured I'd bring it up again and see if I could get a yes or no for the concept. Anyway, here's the suggestion: Gnome "Half-Shiradi" (secret eXtremely Rare; adds wings) - FCs: Bard, Paladin - +8 STR, +6 CHA, free feats: Great Charisma I, Great Charisma II, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Extra Smiting - Other: +1 dice to Greater Smite damage; Levitation The decision to add wings came from the appearance for Shiradi, one of the types of Eladrin, which can be seen here. I know it's kind of silly to think that this might be added, but I kind of feel like it might have just been overlooked, especially since it seemed like we were trying to give upgrades for all of the BUR races with the XR subraces. Let me know. I like everything you've changed except for the race. I still think Halfling needs some love, and this would be the way to give it to them. Sticking with the winged theme, in the book Annihilation, book two in the War of the Spider Queen series, Gromph Baenre is sent to The Green Fields, a layer of Celestia where Halfling souls go after death. There is an unnamed race of celestial winged Halflings there. I propose that they are the Arvoreni.
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 22, 2014 5:40:27 GMT
I wanted to just increase the number of 1d20s, rather than the type of die. Maybe something like 4d20 for main dmg and 1d20 for sacred/vile would be better? What do you think? That's basically two more charisma, I think the subrace is fine w/o the smite boost Yeah, was just trying to think of something on theme for it. It's probably fine without any special. In regards to Halfling vs. Gnome, I think Gnome just offers much more than Halfling. Your saves are already stupid high so Lucky doesn't add anything. Gnome gets 2 more skill points/level, which on paladin you really need desperately, especially if you're going smiter. CON and DEX are probably about even as far as usefulness goes, so there's no real difference in that regard. But I still really think Gnome is the better choice if only for the bonus skill points.
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Post by dynneroth on Feb 22, 2014 6:55:28 GMT
You got me on the skill points. I concede.
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Post by kaezar on Feb 22, 2014 12:48:34 GMT
XRs are quite build specific, you suggest generalist feats that are on paladin bonus feats list. Yes, they are that. But Divine Might and Shield, and extra smitting direct the subby quite enough. I think the idea is to make a halfling paladin, not a halfling smiter paladin. Or any other specific idea. I like to leave the way open. Paladins have enough options on epic feats those two won't be much felt, unless a player is going pure non-smiter with only one weapon focus. Take care Kaezar
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 22, 2014 19:24:20 GMT
So, this?:
Gnome "Half-Shiradi" (secret eXtremely Rare; adds wings) - FCs: Bard, Paladin - +8 STR, +6 CHA, free feats: Divine Might, Divine Shield, Extra Smiting, Mounted Combat - Other: Levitation
Thoughts? Might be a bit bland, no idea if feat count is balanced (counting MC as 0).
Funkhy
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 22, 2014 19:32:26 GMT
No thanks. It has to have both Great Charisma feats. The BUR version gets it. There's no reason for the XR version to get 1 less CHA than the BUR version.
Edit: Also, pure smiters have very very very (did I mention very?) few feats in Epic Levels because 10 of their 13 feats go to Great Smiting.
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 22, 2014 19:56:32 GMT
Actually looking back over the suggestions, it doesn't *have* to be Great Charisma I-II. Armor Skin and Epic Prowess, as Kaezar has suggested, are a bit more general and would still allow a player to choose Great CHA (or Great STR if they wanted).
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